(a.k.a. the Roguetwitpendium, a.k.a. the Home for Wayward Rogue Tweets)
This page is an as-complete-as-I-can-make-it collection of responses from WoW’s designers and community managers to rogue-related tweets tweeted at their Twitterses. All tweets are copy/pasted as the tweeter typed them, with two exceptionbeyonds: I’ve removed “@name” info from each tweet to make them easier to read. I’m also going to keep this page text-only to keep load time down and make it a little easier to browse. Blizzfolk tweets will be colored blue so they stand out.
The tweets below are (mostly) in order from most recent to least recent. Some “conversations” overlap, stretch across several days and cross streams with one another, so I’ve also grouped together related tweets when I felt it made sense to do so.
No, Seriously: No Overhaul in 6.0; Spec Differentiation a Priority (12/5-6)
- @MethodRoger: Are there still plans to do a rework of the hunter class in order to differentiate the specs? Possibly some new resourses? #hope
- @Celestalon: I don’t want to set hopes too high; not even close to MoP Warlock change level. But yes, Rogue/Hunter spec differentiation up.
- @Celestalon: Mainly going to try to make their rotations more distinct from each other, feel different to play. Again, NOT an overhaul.
- @tanjon: Why do you not like focus roger focus is awesome. Pls don’t add combo points or mana >.<
- @Celestalon: There will not be any new resources for Rogues/Hunters. Again, not an overhaul.
- @Mythrowawayname: Is the goal to highlight the identity of the specs? I.E. assassination about poison, sub about stealth?
- @Celestalon: Yes. That’s quite hard, especially in the case of stealth, but we’re going to do what we can.
Shadow Dance = Ideal DPS Cooldown (12/2)
- @Venaliter: Would you gentleman be willing to touch on what abilities, (or types of abilities) you’ve looking at removing in WoD?
- @Celestalon: We’re currently exploring removing CC abilities and redundant DPS/healing cooldowns.
- @VerainOfUrsin: Note that rogues don’t have redundant dps cooldowns, that is all!
- @holinka: We actually like DPS cooldowns that have gameplay changes (e.g. Shadowdance) than “Moar damage”
Still No Rogue Overhaul Planned for 6.0, But… (12/2)
- @silvertongue0: a while back mr @Ghostcrawler said hunters / rogues would get an overhaul next x-pac, just wondering if still happening? Thanks!
- @Celestalon: “Overhaul”, no. We want to better distinguish their different specs. That’s not an “overhaul” at all, though.
Positional Requirements Are Indeed Going Dodo (12/1)
- @jjones186: I’ve heard positional requirements on abilities like backstab/shred are being removed for wod is this true?
- @Celestalon: Yep.
Too Soon to Talk Rogue AoE (or Most Anything) in 6.0 (11/30)
- @evangel666777: Hey rogues aoe damage is weak compared to the other class (sham chain lightning, mage, hunters serpent sting etc). Do you agree?
- @Celestalon: We’re not to the point where we’re ready to talk about specific class ability changes. Spamming won’t help, sorry.
- @evangel666777: Sorry for the spam but i’m a little bored about rogues aoe….especially fan of knives damage
- @Celestalon: Hear your feedback. Remember, not every spec needs to be as good as every other one at every task. Strengths/Weaknesses good.
GC and Sub PvE (11/30)
- @Lhivera: I know correlation isn’t causation, but when @ghostcrawler came in, Frost was relegated to PvP, and as he leaves it’s strong in PvE.
- @Ghostcrawler: It was a philosophy change. Early on some specs were intended for PvP or PvE. I have no real objections to that model either.
- @Leithian: I never understood after dual spec was added why you guys didn’t stop trying to balance pve and pvp and just have a pvp spec
- @Ghostcrawler: Some Frost mages and Sub rogues want to PvE with that spec. Not saying that’s the best design, but that was the motivation.
Still on Radar: Better Spec Differentiation (11/28)
- @Shield_420: Hint hint: spec differences are important; Hunters and Rogues play way too similarly; too many shared spells, mechanics
- @Celestalon: We agree that Hunter/Rogue specs are too similar. Hard problem to tackle, but we’re going to attempt to improve things.
The “Why” Behind CPs on the Target (11/28)
- @JohnWaseleski: not sure this is your dept but why are rogue combo points still unique to the target and not the rogue like pally holy power
- @Ghostcrawler: Target switching was always seen as a skill test for the rogue. You can argue it’s archaic, but that was the design.
Arena Killing Spree Bug? (11/27)
- @WoundmanTV: Hey Holinka, Killing Spree is bugging out in arena. Randomly targets previous targets and is unusable sometimes for no reason.
- @holinka: Will look into it
- @WoundmanTV: Figured I’d mention it seems to happen after CCs like Ring of Frost.
Stealth ≠ Flight (11/21)
- @JCinDE: Name one thing that barring flight gives you that you couldn’t do with a little bit of ingenuity without barring flight.
- @Ghostcrawler: Swoop down, kill quest target, fly away without fighting anything else.
- @theWillisdude: It seems a lot of the dislike for flying is from pvp? Would I be correct in that assumption?
- @Ghostcrawler: A small part of it, but we also hate the way folks quest with flying mounts. Swoop down, unlock prison cage, swoop away.
- @BloodElfBoy: So, do you also hate the way Rogues play the game? Sneak in, unlock prison cage, sneak away…?
- @Ghostcrawler: I don’t think you can really compare the benefits of stealth to flying. Besides it’s a bonus to only 2 classes.
Multistrike “Tertiary Stat” and Deadly Poison (11/20)
- @Celestalon: X% Multistrike means: Each ability has two separate (X/2)% chances to hit each target an additional time for 30% damage.
- @Celestalon: Multistrikes count as hitting the same target twice with one cast, not multiple casts. (i.e. Mind Blast won’t generate 2 shadow orbs)
- @VerainOfUrsin: Will my white attack be able to proc deadly three times? Will each deadly tick be able to multistrike?
- @Celestalon: No; additional Multistrike and Cleave hits are considered procs, so can’t proc more things. But, DPoison could Multistrike.
Hit/Expertise, Missing/Dodging/Parrying in WoD PvE (11/12-13, 11/17)
- @Aelobin: With the removal of hit/exp, will attacks no longer have a chance to miss/dodge?
- @Ghostcrawler: It will behave as if you were hit capped for yellow attacks.
- @Ghostcrawler: For example, most don’t bother overcoming bosses from the front & there might still be a DW penalty, but it’s one players have now.
- @jjones186: Are you saying there will still be boss parry? if so why? Details User Actions Following Greg Street
- @Ghostcrawler: We still like the tank out front and the melee behind the boss as a general design.
- @hurricup: How about expertise? For my tank i’ve got 15%, and DPS class is happy with 7.5% for attacks from behind.
- @Ghostcrawler: Tanks will always hit. Melee will still have a chance to be parried from the front.
- @dydxen: RE: removing hit/exp – does that mean all attacks 100% hit? Or is there a baseline miss chance we can no longer negate?
- @Ghostcrawler: Imagine you capped yellow attacks, which is typical today. Melee might miss from the front or with an OH attack.
No Plans to Axe Slice and Dice (Except as Mut Leveling Perk) (11/14)
- @evangel666777: Is slice and dice deleted for Warlords of draenor (for sub and combat)?
- @Ghostcrawler: Not at the moment. We just want to distinguish rotations a bit more by not having all rogues have to manage it.
Bringing Back Poison Visual Effects: Still on the Radar (11/13)
[Note from me: The exchange below was probably triggered by this quote from MMO-Champion's summary of an interview with Ghostcrawler and Russell Brower at BlizzCon: "The artists have experimented with what a brace of knives would look like on a Rogue's thigh. Quivers are another thing that are being looked at. While they might not be ready for 6.0, they are being worked on."]
- @Brendan_Bolger: Please tell me quivers and knives aren’t the only things you’ve tested. A certain paladin has been missing his certain book.
- @Ghostcrawler: Quiver, poisons and libram are the options we always discuss. If the artists can come up with cool totems etc. maybe.
Raid Roles and “Utility” (10/23)
- @guobin6: There is no place for DPS DK in Raid.They prefer Warriors or Rogues. By the way DK aoe suck;(
- @Ghostcrawler: Gorefiend’s Grasp… AMZ… Raise Ally…?
- @Spinner981: How bout hunter utility? We have no raid cooldowns, best we can say is “But I bring a buff!”. FYI: I am not BM…
- @Ghostcrawler: Players often use “utility” as synonymous with raid cooldowns like Smoke Bomb. That’s not what we mean by utility.
Concerns About Shadow Sight Orb Changes (10/22)
- @holinka: Arena Tiebreaker Update: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/10195209926?page=24#474
- @notoriousMWI: dearest chief Holinka, if I ever get feared into a shadow sight – I know where you tweet. Any plans to make it “clickable”?
- @holinka: It sends me a picture every time a rogue gets feared into an orb and I hang it on my wall.
- @notoriousMWI: So that’s how we’re going to play it, huh? #SAVIORofAzeroth. pic.twitter.com/gfIO0Kb75V
- @holinka: in all seriousness we’ll look into what might be possible with the orbs
Rogues in Robes (9/25)
- @Phoboshadow: http://wowhead.com/item=104705 why a rogue with robe? whyyyy?
- @Ghostcrawler: All leather wearers share gear, and that chest was designed for the monk aesthetic and not the rogue. Not sure how to solve.
KS Range Hotfix Clarification (9/19)
- @SvelteKumquat: According to last night’s hotfix notes, the Killing Spree range issue should be OK now.
- @SvelteKumquat: Phrasing of the hotfix note is odd, tho — suggests Blade Flurry was causing Killing Spree’s issues, which ain’t what we saw. (@Rygarius?)
- @Rygarius: Blade Flurry was incorrectly modifying Killing Spree’s range depending if it’s active or not,
Killing Spree Range Issue (9/17)
- @SvelteKumquat: Anyone out there feel like Killing Spree’s range isn’t always working quite right? Wondering if it’s maybe a thing: http://ow.ly/235fSS
- @SvelteKumquat: Thanks guys. Did quick test on PTR this a.m., and KS’s range *does* appear to differ depending on whether BF is on. Oh @Ghostcrawler… :)
- @Ghostcrawler: Yeah, looking into that.
Vanishing Shroud Reticle? (9/14)
- @Bailamostar: Any idea why my shroud of concealment isn’t showing up visually on my rogue anymore?
- @holinka: all the time? Haven’t heard any reports besides this one.
- @Bailamostar: yeah I haven’t seen it all patch
- @holinka: I assume you mean the circle projected on the ground
- @Bailamostar: yes it no longer appears
- @holinka: Seems to be working for others. Not sure that anything changed there.
- @Bailamostar: It just worked in a 3v3 wargame, however, it never worked on the timeless isle where I’ve been stealthing around ganking my faction
- @holinka: We can investigate but my own tests showed it working. It could be a graphical issue.
Why SotA Cannon Shadowstep Was Hotfixed Out (9/13-14)
- @SvelteKumquat: Among this evening’s 5.4 hotfix notes: “Rogues can no longer use Shadowstep on Antipersonnel Cannons in Strand of the Ancients.”
- @SvelteKumquat: Have they not been able to do this all expansion?
- @wavefunctionp: We’ve been able to step the turrets since the battleground was implemented. One more roguey thing taken away.
- @holinka: The bombs were buffed this patch. It allowed rogues to just run to the last door.
- @VerainOfUrsin: I told you to make walls invincible until other walls destoryed! Now can’t wait by flag rrrrrrrrrrrr sota is lame now fuck that!
- @holinka: sorry boss. Sometimes I don’t write down everything you tell me to do.
- @VerainOfUrsin: Snark snark. I tweeted you this when we oqueued a full rogue sota that did this last patch- in hopes your fix wouldn’t nerf shs!!
- @holinka: it will be something to consider for the future
Holinka’s Watching You, Killing Spree (9/10)
- @MikeAltamirano: nooooooo killing spree not fixed yet!!!!!!!! :(
- @holinka: I’m still keeping an eye on killing spree. Not convinced its worse than any other big damage combo.
Of Warriors, Rogues and the GCD (9/8)
- @tschakaa00: remove the GCD lock from Warrior’s plz … its soo bad to be the only class locked to 1.5sec
- @Ghostcrawler: I suspect 1 sec GCD warriors would lead to more “I’m standing around waiting for rage” comments again.
- @Seerows_Law: Monks manage 1s gcd with resource management and gcd capped. Why do you pretend like it’s impossible to work?
- @Azreluna: He was saying it’s possible to work, but warriors are always complaining one way or the other.
- @Ghostcrawler: Exactly. Rogues are used to not filling every GCD. For some warriors, it feels too slow.
Killing Spree 5.4 PTR Bug (Insane Damage Stacking With Tier 16 4-Piece Bonus) on the Radar (8/29)
- @fatdraenei: http://www.twitch.tv/devahi/b/452737931, at around 8:34:50, rogue critting killing spree for 1billion on Galakras.
- @Ghostcrawler: Yeah, we are aware of that bug, but thanks for mentioning.
CPs on the Rogue: Not Off the Table (8/25)
- @Flim_Ascendance: Have you guys read any of the feedback / ideas regarding Combo Points? Some interesting threads over @ MmoC
- @Ghostcrawler: Yeah. I think at the high level, it’s worth asking if keeping them on the target is the right design.
Spec Viability Challenges (8/24-26)
- @Antareana: Do you really tweak class numbers based on player population of that class (buff low pop)? That’d be pretty weird to me…
- @Ghostcrawler: Not really. But I use it as a counterargument frequently when players argue their class / spec is all getting benched.
- @Thepsychofreak: so you lie to get rid of us?
- @Ghostcrawler: You misunderstand (perhaps purposefully). I point out that their claim “no one can play X” is perhaps incorrect.
- @DreyfussFrost: “I want to play my fav spec, but I don’t because it’s bad, and I’m not going to test it until you fix it.” :\
- @Thepsychofreak: I don’t see anything bad in wanting to play a specific spec. Don’t we all play for fun? Each spec is different
- @Ghostcrawler: It’s fine to want to play a specific spec. Challenge is making Combat and Mutilate identical on all fights.
Combat T15-4pc + Assurance of Consequence Likely Too Good on 5.4 PTR (8/23)
- @TheVigilate: Combat w/ bis t16 4pc: http://t.co/5VEEBtnZPv Combat w/ Bis t15 4pc: http://t.co/jvBPRUt2fc I think that’s a problem.
- @Ghostcrawler: New cooldown trinket with old set bonus interaction is possibly too strong.
- @GarethDeakin1: The problem i see their is the fact your simming possibly 60k higher than lower end classes in BiS :D
- @Ghostcrawler: To be clear, our testing is not 100% based on simulations. Simulation has a lot of risks.
Eviscerate 5.4 Nerf Clarification (8/16, 8/20)
- @Haileaus: Patch notes say Eviscerate got nerfed, but datamine says base dmg nerfed, AP scaling buffed. Can you offer clarity? <3
- @Rygarius: I’d like to look into it. Can you link to the datamine source?
- @Haileaus: http://t.co/ii5mmPWHwY (Easy) http://t.co/gwTGo9eDHn (Real numbers)
- @Rygarius: You’re in luck. Caught them before they left for the weekend. AP scaling was reduced by 10% as well. Datamine was incorrect.
- @m_chaud: Are you sure? The AP multiplier going from .16 on live to .18 on PTR seems like an increase, so either the tooltip is wrong or…
- @Rygarius: I’m sure (unless an email comes in). Tooltip corrections are sometimes tracked incorrectly as a change on the datamine comparisons.
- @Rygarius: What I got from the devs was change to Eviscerate dealing 10% less damage was across the board. There was no buff to the ability.
- @SvelteKumquat: Is the suggestion here that the ability already HAS that modifier on live, and the 5.4 tooltip now reflects it?
- @Rygarius: I don’t know. But having people ask about notes saying X but datamine says Y has helped catch errors in the past.
- @Rygarius: I’d ask out loud for Rogues to see if Eviscerate is actually dealing ~10% less damage as noted on PTR.
Combo Point Stacking: No Comment (8/18)
- @goldman1337: ever though about moving combo points to the character instead of the target?
- @Ghostcrawler: Yes.
Players Still Worried About Combat T15 4-Piece’s Strength (8/13)
- @paulgkrygsman: Hope you are enjoying your job at Blizzard so far. Just wanted to encourage you to check in on the Combat Rogue thread again 1/2
- @paulgkrygsman: The thread has a lot of math/sims that point out why the 5.4 changes aren’t helping and why the T15 4 piece needs a nerf. 2/2
- @devolore: I’m going to bring it up again to the devs
- @devolore: for clarity, that doesn’t mean we’ll agree
Why Buff Assassination for 5.4? (8/13)
- @vipbrj: Looking at the 1st round of DPS tuning: Are you guys intending assassination to shine again in execute range? If so, thanks!
- @Ghostcrawler: Partially, but really just Assassination was lower than intended on 5.4. I’m not sure I can explain why that is relative to 5.3.
Incoming: Patch 5.4 Rogue Damage Adjustments (8/12)
- @Rygarius: Working on Rogue DPS tuning notes now.
- @thebl4ckd0g: can’t wait to read them, since that’s my main and favorite class. :D
- @Rygarius: It’s mostly positive. Think you’ll like it.
- @GlacialRule: but i have no rogue…..hmmm….maybe I should make one?
- @Rygarius: Play whatever class you find fun imo. Class tweaks aren’t going to suddenly be -101% to damage and healing instead of damage.
- @Austduskwing: So, from the coffee bird’s mouth, what are rouges looking forward to in total? *holds up an obviously fake microphone*
- @Rygarius: A light blush and splash of color on the foundation but not too much as to not overpower the lipstick.
Resilience, Battle Fatigue and 5.4 Killing Spree (8/10, 8/11)
- @HydraMWIst: Please don’t let the killing spree globalling go live. 0.64% (real number) of the rogue population would like it.
- @holinka: Testing on the PTR has demonstrated that PvP damage/healing is too high. We will be tuning Base Resilience and Battle Fatigue.
- @KymScally: any ideas on the numbers for the tuning yet?
- @holinka: We’ll be increasing base resilience to 72% and battle fatigue to 55%. We’ll test and decide whether to re-tune.
[one day later -- too soon for changes to have been implemented]
- @IshayuG: BM and Sub Rogue burst on PTR remain stupidly high. Killing from 100% in 3-4 seconds while enemy is CC’d. That can’t be right…
- @IshayuG: Sorry, make that Combat Rogue, not Sub Rogue. Culprit is Killing Spree.
- @holinka: We say a lot of specs with this performance on PTR which led to Base Resilience increase. It may take even more.
Why So Afraid of Warlock-Type Rogue Revamp? (8/10)
- @zbreilly: Outside of time/resources, what would be the argument against Warlock-level revamps of Hunter/Rogue?
- @Ghostcrawler: Turning players away from hunter and rogue. “I wanted change but not THAT change.”
Is Recuperate Being Buffed Enough? (8/10)
- @VerainOfUrsin: If you up battle fatigue and resil, be SURE to up recup some too. And probably leeching.
- @holinka: Recuperate and it’s glyph have already been buffed in 5.4
- @jjones186: Remember 5.2 that buffed it too 5.3 took it right back down Thats people’s worry that the bf buff will cancel out the buff to recup
- @holinka: Rogues have plenty of tools for survivability #yes #isaidit
Reasoning Behind 5.4 Evasion Buff; Cheat Death Ain’t Evasion (8/10)
- @MikeAltamirano: 100% Evasion on 2 min CD and still on Preperation. Why?
- @holinka: Evasion at less than 100% just feels dumb. You hit it as a defensive button, but then 10% it doesn’t help you.
- @holinka: Duration and cooldown were reduced so it could chain together for 30 seconds.
- @Yasko89: then why is cheat death the shittest talent ever?..you still die instantly when it procs whynot make it 100%
- @holinka: that’s a damage reduction not a chance to miss. It’s easier to predict the effects with damage reduction.
Combat’s Tier 15 Bonus Won’t Be Stronger Than Tier 16 (8/9)
- @SvelteKumquat: Missed this earlier today: @devolore explains why they’re leaving T15 4pc unchanged for Combat. I’m… skeptical. http://t.co/ILMWURX3h7
- @wavefunctionp: As am I. T15 is still going to be too strong to break, and only makes the spec again rely on certain items
- @SvelteKumquat: Shadowvenom and @Fierydemise explain issues well in response (in-thread). My biggest worry’s clinging to T15 too.
- @devolore: We do fully intend on nerfing the T15 bonus if it does indeed remain mandatory.
(Fun Thread) Blizz CM Lore Becomes an Assassin (8/9)
- @devolore: 5.4 Combat Rogue update + request for feedback! bit.ly/13MQEe9
- @fewyn: Boo combat rogues! Assassination 4 life!
- @devolore: Have been playing Assassin myself lately. Took some getting used to re: energy pooling but having a lot of fun with it.
- @fewyn: Honestly I find Assassination a lot easier to play and more enjoyable. Whenever I try to play Combat I feel overloaded
- @devolore: was 100% Subtlety since Classic before. Trying new things, hooray!
- @fewyn: I’ve never really tried Subtlety, have been meaning to give it a real go how is it compared to Combat and Assassination?
- @devolore: It’s not terribly different from Assassin. More dependent on positioning, less dependent on bleeds.
- @Trilumigon: You mentioned agreeing rogue specs need to be looked at. Any thing to discuss currently? Warlock level rehaul in the future?
- @Ghostcrawler: Unlikely to be at the warlock level with vastly different resources.
- @Ghostcrawler: More on the table would be something like one spec has Rupture, one uses Recuperate rotationally, and one uses SnD.
- @Ghostcrawler: Note that is GC random musings, not any kind of official announcement.
- @Sativ_BH: Binding recuperate to a single spec would be very bad news for rogues =-o
- @Ghostcrawler: Not sure it would be Sub only, but we heard lots of feed that it was cool when Sub used it a lot.
- @Ghostcrawler: Remember, that was a totally off the cuff example of how rogues could change. It’s nowhere near an announcement,
- @Sativ_BH: Misunderstood your post. It was interesting to utilize another finisher. Being forced 2 keep Slice/Recup up sucked
- @Ghostcrawler: Yeah, for sure. One pitch is to parcel out Rupture, SnD and Recup, but maybe that is still too similar of a maintain X feel.
- @VerainOfUrsin: How about,all specs keeps slice and rupture, but focus on adding exciting moves with short cooldowns,or limited use?
- @Ghostcrawler: So many rogues complain about SnD maintenance that giving them an opt out would be nice.
“Pretty Happy With Rogues” (7/31, 8/6)
- @HatredAU: why are you evading all rogue questions ? The class has had nearly no attention throughout mop, less than Shaman!
- @Ghostcrawler: Because we’re pretty happy with rogues. We did make several talent changes throughout MoP.
- @Cucaipuca: And you are happy with rogue population too, cause thay are falling down??? Changes need to hapen cause thay are outdated…
- @Ghostcrawler: They have been dropping almost since launch. We’ve looked at the issue a lot, and two things seemed to hasten the decline.
- @Ghostcrawler: First, it became harder to gank someone from stealth in the world. Second, we introduced DKs.
- @Ghostcrawler: In any case, we’re not sold on the idea that overhauling rogues leads to a population increase. Not sure that worked for locks.
(Fun Thread) Combat PvP Too Strong on 5.4 PTR (8/4)
- @1HathayaN1: Man you must check out ye rogue “combat” one shot this can’t be going live in arena the season will be rogue combat only!!!!
- @1HathayaN1: and 8 sec kidney that’s more than sap/ blind
- @holinka: I guess @ByronBernstein was playing combat on the PTR today
Why Bring Back Thistle Tea? (8/3)
- @Haileaus: What’s the reason for making things like Thistle Tea (+100 energy on-use) useless? IMO it adds flavor.
- @Ghostcrawler: How many consumables do you want to be forced to juggle? Flasks, food, potions, health stones at the moment. Am I forgetting any?
Eyes on Improving Combat’s Single-Target Damage (7/31)
- @HatredAU: Have you guys got any plans to look at making combat the top rogue spec? playing mostly assass for 3 patches is getting old!
- @Ghostcrawler: We wish Combat were closer, yes. In 5.2(?), we wanted to nerf C’s cleave and buff their ST, but don’t think we buffed it enough.
On Combat Changes and Unhappiness (7/26)
- @Thepsychofreak: “Combat is for me a fun spec where i can mostly push buttons all the time, but not on PTR.” http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7818671894
- @Thepsychofreak: “The change is pretty much short-sighted laziness from the devs” http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7818671894
- @Thepsychofreak: don’t you think players should be excited about oncoming changes rather than stressed out?
- @Ghostcrawler: We didn’t make this change in a vacuum. We were responding to a lot of feed that high haste made Combat too spammy.
(sources: one, two, three)
More Changes in Store for 5.4 Combat (7/24)
- @SvelteKumquat: Aaand following the new datamine, official 5.4 PTR notes are updated. Zilcho rogue changes. (Not a surprise; damage tuning hasn’t started.)
- @Fierydemise: Really we hoping we hear about the combat changes soon. At this point it should be clear to everyone they are a bad “fix”
- @SvelteKumquat: It’d be cool to see @devolore come back to that discussion thread with an update, but I suspect there’s still deliberation.
- @wavefunctionp: Probably more of a case of, omg, how to fix without making combat look like the new fotm.
- @Fierydemise: It really should be as simple as nerf 4pc T15, tinker with all the other modifiers (vit, RvS, etc.)
- @devolore: I believe that’s along the lines of what we’re thinking. Not positive though.
Why Buff Paralytic Poison for 5.4? (7/23)
- @Deontto: Why the buff to Paralytic Poison? Rogues do not need a buff to their control.
- @holinka: Provide some choice in that row. Hard to compete with PotW.
Assassination Non-Dagger Loot Bug Fix Clarifications (7/9, 7/19)
- @SvelteKumquat: Hay, is there any particular reason the Assassination rogue loot-drop fix has to wait for Patch 5.4 instead of coming via hotfix?
- @Rygarius: Depending on how the loot tables were implemented, we may or may not be able to fix it server side.
- @Rygarius: Ack, I mean in this case, the fix isn’t possible w/o a client patch.
- @wavefunctionp: Just for clarity. This fix will apply to all loot awards that are subject to spec selection for all content tiers?
- @Rygarius: That’s the idea. Assassination notes for 5.4 PTR explains it in more detail. ow.ly/n8Kfy
No Return Planned for Old Poison Proc Animations (7/18, 7/30)
- @ChritznL: Holinka, where’s my old poison proc animation minor glyph? :< or coldblood animation glyph? dark warglaives during shadowblades??
- @holinka: The poison’s used to be temp enchants on the weapons but now they are on the player so it isn’t that easy to do.
- @ChritznL: Greg also thought I ment the wep enchant, but this is what I ment, do you know if it’d be easy to implement via glyph? Looks badass
- @holinka: In his defense, I’ve heard this from no one else. It seems quite busy especially due to how often poison procs.
[12 days later...]
- @ChritznL: Any word on the poison proc glyph? And is there a way to bring back cold blood animation via minor glyph aswell? Miss them glows.
- @holinka: it won’t be in 5.4
Is the End of Preparation Nigh? (7/16)
- @Divine_Namjoo: with the constant nerfs to prep/readiness/alter time, maybe it’s time you stopped putting cd reset abilities into the game
- @Ghostcrawler: We agree. I’m not sure that design angle has payed out well.
Glyph of Adrenaline Rush Going Baseline in 5.4 (7/15)
- @Fierydemise: GoAR has been replaced with GoRedirect in recent PTR build. Will the GCD reduction be baselined or removed?
- @Ghostcrawler: Yes. We baked in GoAR.
Glyph of Redirect? What Glyph of Redirect? (7/15)
- @Henning98882021: The new Rogue glyph for Redirect removes the cd entirely. Consider making the glyph stack combopts on Rog instead for convinience?
- @holinka: that feels like a pretty huge change for a glyph
No Classes Need an Overhaul for Next Expansion, Buuut… (7/13)
- @Bunzato: Now that we’re approaching the end of MoP. What class/classes do you think need a big overhaul in 6.0?
- @Ghostcrawler: None. We will likely work to make the 3 hunter and rogue specs play a little more differently from each other.
Questioning Newly Proposed 5.4 Combat Spec Changes (7/13) [read blog post]
- @TheVigilate: Fierydemise has some raw sim date for your proposed combat changes (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9423803534?page=6#120). Combat’s going to need more tbh.
- @Ghostcrawler: Yeah to be fair, we haven’t tuned the damage yet. Just focused on pacing. Bandit’s Guile may need tweaking too.
Bloody Dancing Steel = Yes for 5.4 (7/13)
- @WardenEU: Will Bloody Dancing Steel enchant still be available when the new season starts? awsome if it could atleast stay.
- @holinka: yes
(Fun Thread) On Healer Murders (7/13)
- @latteine: the fact that one rogue can stunlock and kill a healer doesn’t make them OP, does it?
- @holinka: Not according to most rogues on twitter :-D
Don’t Make Assumptions About 5.4 Spec Strength Yet (7/12)
- @causeimrossome: it seems for rogues this coming tier combat is looking less desirable than sub in raids. Is this the intent?
- @Ghostcrawler: Are you basing that on anything other than DPS (which isn’t tuned for 5.4 yet)
Rogue PvP Viability Ain’t Just About Buffing Rogues (7/12)
- @FernandoFerna20: So when are you guys planning to revert rogue to viablity? seriously warriors and rogues are by far in the worst spots ever.
- @holinka: We’ve made some changes to them in 5.4 and nerfed some of the most dominant classes
5.4 Rogues May Kite More Easily, But… (7/11)
- @PhxTich: Played a few on the PTR as DK… BoS rogues just kited me for days, STing and NEVER getting into range. Looking like last patch..
- @holinka: not a strategy I’ve heard is effective on live
Yes, Combat Rogues PvP (And Use CnD) (7/9-10)
- @Aulper7: Wha? When is CnD desirable for any spec? (Not trying to argue genuinely curious as I dont see ANY rogues taking it)
- @holinka: PvP combat rogues tend to take it
- @wavefunctionp: Do you think its because since they are playing combat in the first place that they don’t know better?
- @holinka: I’m looking at combat rogues above 2200
- @Sarorz: combat rogues above 2200? You sure they’re not just offspec?
- @holinka: It is the spec they finished the match in. This is not armory data.
No Assassination Nerfs Yet for 5.4 (7/9)
- @bob13305717: why nerf assassination rogues please… seems beyond pointless lets make a spec even more less used and…
- @bob13305717: lets make it so the people that do have to change spec to sub gratz!!! >.<
- @holinka: Where do you see a nerf to assassination?
- @bob13305717: Eviscerate now deals 10% less damage.the datamined on mmo champion says it has took effect to envenom [Editor's note: No, it doesn't. The datamined tooltip just notes that the Evisc change applies to the Assassination spec, which is irrelevant since Mut rogues don't cast Evisc.]
- @holinka: Datamining, unnecessarily breaking hearts since 2007
For Many Classes, Damage Is a Tradeoff (7/9)
- @MissBoJangles1: 5.4 aff lock pvp looks grim. so reliant on haunt means using shards 4 utility tanks damage. No other class has that huge a tradeoff
- @holinka: Many other classes have that tradeoff
- @MissBoJangles1: examples? None to the same extent, where main damage ability is exclusive with utility. Esp with nerfed ss rate.
- @holinka: Rogue finishers are utility or damage. Rets choose damage or heals. Shadow priest choose devouring plague or psychic horror.
Baseline Shadowstep Was Considered; Combat Uses CnD (7/9)
- @steelshatter: did you consider making shadowstep baseline? Rogue mobility buffs meh. CnD and BoS are weak alone.
- @holinka: We considered it, but there are some situations where BoS and CnD are desirable for some specs.
Eviscerate Nerf Will Be Offset for Combat (7/9)
- @Cacyte: Can you explain the #Eviscerate nerf? Will it be compensate with, for example, a Rupture buff? #PVE #Rogues #Combat #WoW
- @holinka: We’re still exploring that change for combat. Idea was reduce burst, buff sustain.
- @Sknilegap: Holinka, any answer for this one? PVE and PVP combat alike I’m sure would like to see why.
- @holinka: Yes, we aren’t done
Rogue Spec Balance in Raids (7/9)
- @HitThatWithThis: To illustrate my gripe. Pure DPS top specs for ToT fights:
Mage:Fi:9 A:3 Fr:0
Hunt:BM:9 SV:3 MM:0
Lock:Aff:4 De:6 Ds:2
Rog:As:12 Co:0 Sb:0
- @SvelteKumquat: This is… Raidbots top 100 heroic?
- @HitThatWithThis: Yes, H25, and I know that raidbots is flawed in many ways, but I still think this is relevant.
- @SvelteKumquat: To me it’s reflective of the “echo” effect, yeah. Don’t disagree with your point; just leery on what “ideal” solution is.
- @SvelteKumquat: I think back to Sub’s resurgence in late Cata. It was partly about buffs, partly fight design, but mostly about perception.
- @SvelteKumquat: Maybe if @Rygarius just added a patch note that said, “Subtlety is now officially just as good as Assassination in raids”..
- @Rygarius: Class + Spec rep is a tough one to crack. Not as simple as ‘dps is low’. Could be synergy with other specs.
- @Rygarius: It’s something worth discussing and figure out if a simple buff or other tweaks are needed.
- @HitThatWithThis: Whatever the solution, the overreaching point is rogues are the only class with 1 spec represented in heroic raids.
- @Rygarius: There’s always the oddball scenario where the specs are balanced but ppl don’t pick it for some reason. O.o
- @SvelteKumquat: Apologies @Rygarius, I @mentioned you into this convo after Stariian and I had already traded bunches of tweets over this.
- @SvelteKumquat: Part of the underlying argument here is that fight design is decidedly friendlier to Mut spec than Combat/Sub.
- @Rygarius: That’s possible too. Certain specs may fare better against a type of fight or encounter.
(Fun Thread) Lore’s Rogue Hits 90… (7/7)
- @devolore: Dinged 90 on the Rogue finally. I will stab all the things.
- @Bashiok: inc rogue buffs amirite
Holinka Will Check Out Rogue Feedback Podcast (6/30)
- @WoW_WildeHilde: Concentrated rogue feedback for @holinka from @Rzn732, @WoundmanTV,@TrevorEckhoff, Samx, Akaishuichi and Pikaboo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glLs7t5_L0Q
- @holinka: wasn’t able to catch it live but will watch thanks! Sunday family funday.
5.4 PTR: PvE Trinks Better Than PvP? (6/30)
- @ReinhartDaRus: ptr.wowdb.com/items/102298-5-4-raid-normal-siege-of-orgrimmar-boss-x-loot-x … I am very scared again now looks like 5.2 all over unless you buff pvp trinket bonus by another 10% :(((((.
- @loadeddreams: I’d much rather have the 39% reduced cool downs on my rogue any day than 10% dmg reduction
- @holinka: It is scaled down to 20% at ilevel 512. Have you looked at the cooldowns that are affected?
KS Won’t One-Shot Players in 5.4 (6/29)
- @ThorSilverhand: Greetings, could you check this clip about combat rogue on ptr, please: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5E2FT-IURo4 … is that balanced?
- @holinka: We will do something about killing spree on the PTR
More Rogue Changes Planned for 5.4 (6/27)
- @balto55461572: Pourrait-on voir des changement chez les rogues pour des talents tels que Dirty Trick et Leeching poison,de nouvelles abiletés? [Rough translation: Could we see changes among rogues for talents like Dirty Tricks and Leeching Poison, the new abilities?]
- @holinka: I was just being snarky with the French reply. Please don’t make a habit of it :-D. We aren’t done with rogues. [note: the "French reply" Holinka is referring to is his response to an expletive-laden tweet someone flung at him in French, to which he replied -- in French -- that he hopes the tweeter will enjoy it once he's blocked.]
Yes, Holinka Read Woundman’s Post (6/25)
- @cluskyuk: Have you read this thread by woundman? Some realistic changes that could really help rogues http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/238984-reasonable-rogue-changes/
- @holinka: Yes
Holinka Thumbs-Ups a PvP Thread (6/21)
- @TrevorEckhoff: Made a post about rogues over at aj: http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/238956-what-rogues-need-to-be-competitive/#entry3903155
- @holinka: it’s a good post, thanks
GC Reiterates Rogue Specs (Rotations) Are Too Similar (6/18)
- @evangel666777: Can you explain me one thing of rogues change in the future? (the three spec are pretty the same)
- @Ghostcrawler: Nothing final yet, but we agree the rotations are too similar to each other.
The “Narrow Edge” of Recuperate (6/18)
- @Fromnowear: What is the aversion to adding to/splitting Recup to have an upfront component? Homogeneity?
- @Fromnowear: I sincerely think the perceived impotence of the heal is really from a lack of immediate effect on the button press.
- @Fromnowear: see: evolution of Rejuv, Renew, Riptide (unglyphed), Enraged Regen, Cauterize Master, et al.
- @Ghostcrawler: I think it would be more about the tuning – letting it tick vs. using it frequently for that upfront heal.
- @Ghostcrawler: Might be solvable, but that is one of the concerns. Hard to nail that narrow edge.
Still Willing to Revisit Level-60 Talents (6/15)
- @melty_meltyc: Any word on rogue mobility buff or is it safe to assume that it isn’t happening until the next expansion hits?
- @holinka: we’ll explore ideas. Feel free to offer some but try to keep the row balanced.
(Fun Thread) Fixed Stealth = Fixed EVERYTHING (6/15)
- @Rzn732: any plans on fixing shroud of concealment? enemy teams seeing my whole team in stealth and knocking them out is really annoying :( Details
- @Lazerchickenwow: by fix, i hope he means remove from the game. full team openers from stealth is extremely imba no matter strength of rogues
- @holinka: I’m guessing that’s not what @Rzn732 meant
- @Rzn732: yeah, that’s not what I meant :P I’m sure you know what I mean Brian.
- @holinka: Yes you meant if we fixed this rogues are all fixed 100% good. Heard loud and clear!
Stealth Hotfixes (6/15)
- @Freshfreeflyx: Stealth bug in arena. water elementals and rogue party members get found all the time. fix please
- @Freshfreeflyx: basically stopping every RMP opener
- @holinka: A hotfix was pushed out to help with most of the stealth bugs. Let us know if you still see problems.
5.4 Balance Thoughts (6/15)
- @andaellyn: Should rogues expect changes in 5.4pvp. Compared to other class our damage,mobility, and survivability are below every other class.
- @holinka: So is your visibility. Not disagreeing that rogues may be buff worthy but the niche is control and stealth, not survivability.
5.4 PTR KS Too Powerful in PvP (6/14)
- @WoW_WildeHilde: Killing Spree on the 5.4 PTR can one-shot people. Without nerfs double rogue comps will rise: http://youtu.be/-AOiiTpChis
- @holinka: the set bonuses are still works in progress. they haven’t been tuned.
KS Bug on 5.4 PTR (6/13)
- @ProdeGaming: Killing Spree hits the closest target if your target is not in range, not sure if intended.(5.4 PTR)
- @holinka: It’s bugged
Workaround for 5.4 Stealth Issues (6/12) [read blog post]
- @skidsh: Just so u know I have noticed in arena that most stealths are bugged and I can occasionally see players from a long distance.
- @holinka: There is a bug that if the player casts stealth after the gates open, they can be seen for 3 seconds. Stealth before gates open.
- @SvelteKumquat: Are you saying that, if the player does that, any future use of stealth/Shroud will work fine (until they zone elsewhere)?
- @holinka: Yes, it is only the initial 3 seconds
CnD Changes Not Reverted in 5.4 (6/12)
- @balto55461572: The tooltip of CnD on ptr is unclear, did you revert it the way it was before ( works during dance)
- @holinka: CnD still does not work with Shadowdance
Pre-Potting Should Break Stealth (6/7)
- @Thepsychofreak: is it normal or a bug that pre-poting gets you out of stealth even in PVE?
- @holinka: normal. Using items (including trinkets) breaks stealth.
Shroud (and Stealth?) Bug Fix(es?) in the Works(?) (6/6(?))
- @Sknilegap: cool, can’t wait to hear em… Nother ? Do you know why we can see ppl in aoe stealth for like 2 secs? Is it fade time or a bug?
- @holinka: we are working on the stealthily bug [note: Holinka quickly deleted this tweet, likely because it kinda made no sense]
- @SvelteKumquat: (He’s talking about Shroud — looks like it’s still on the operating table.) RT @holinka: .@Sknilegap we are working on the stealthily bug
- @holinka: We are working on the stealth bugs
- @SvelteKumquat: …you mean not just Shroud? (I wasn’t aware there were others. Except for Subterfuge. But let’s not talk about that.)
- @Fromnowear: Like being able to see/target rogue easily w/o normal stealth broken. Was stealth level changed?
- @SvelteKumquat: But I see people post stuff about things like that after every patch. And between patches. And each morning. And night.
- @holinka: It seems related to newly zoned players so arena and BGs are big problems
Combat (and Killing Spree) in PvP (6/6)
- @Sknilegap: Thoughts on combat getting attention for pvp? Its hard to balance multi specs, but would be nice to not rely on stealth so much
- @holinka: Hear a lot of complaints about Killing Spree…we have some ideas..
- @fuggan_: I think a glyph for KS which makes it only attack your current target could work well.
- @jjones186: Rather than forcing a glyph why not make it work off bladeflurry? Bf is up it acts as it does now if not only your target.
- @holinka: ;-)
Rogue Specs Too Similar (6/6)
- @colhac: I think GC has hinted previously that he thinks hunter specs should be more different
- @Ghostcrawler: Yup. Hunter and rogue specs play too similarly in our opinions. (Don’t expect massive overhauls.)
Recuperate to Get Another Look (6/5)
- @Ghostcrawler: It’s tough when one group of players demands something and we make the change, then others demand the change reverted.
- @VerainOfUrsin: Can I demand you revert the change where recuperate sucks? I speak for everyone*! *Also I am a sollipsist today.
- @Ghostcrawler: We’ve actually heard the Recuperate feedback a lot lately. We’ll look into it.
5.3 Rogue Nerfs Weren’t “Knee Jerk” (6/5)
- @3v1lc0w: I think everyone agrees Hunters and Eles are dominating atm. They just don’t wanna nerf so soon after patch
- @holinka: Players have to adjust (even “top” players) and we don’t want knee jerk reactions.
- @Snacks19: You don’t want knee jerk reactions? Explain what it was that you did to rogues then.
- @holinka: A knee jerk reaction would be hotfixing right after release. Rogues were changed via patch.
Rogue PvP Ain’t About the Damage (6/5)
- @fuggan_ 3h: Is it fair that some hybrids (ret/enha/feral) offer more damage AND utility in arena than rogues (pure dps class)?
- @holinka: Rogues have a lot of control/utility outside of damage.
Why Don’t Rogues Finish Leveling? (6/3)
- @SvelteKumquat: I plan to put together a blog entry on rogue pop trends based on @wowcynwise’s latest data, but there’s SO MUCH here. Where to start?
- @SvelteKumquat: Most interesting to me, I think, is that it appears rogues may have suffered more than any other class from how alt-unfriendly 5.0 was.
- @SvelteKumquat: This chart is the kicker; it suggests that, relative to other classes, rogues just aren’t getting leveled to 86+. pic.twitter.com/RZJOgjjtsQ
- @wowcynwise: There’s definitely an alt/main dynamic going on with Rogues, but they lag so far behind other pure DPS it’s noteworthy.
- @SvelteKumquat: You (and @Ghostcrawler, ofc) get at an important point when noting that in the endgame (raids), rogues are fine.
- @SvelteKumquat: But they don’t appear to be “casual-friendly.” Is it that they don’t get leveled, or don’t even get picked at start screen?
- @Ghostcrawler: Our data suggests they are as common as everyone else at low level, but drop to a lower proportion every level.
- @Tophersz: #bestdesignedclass
- @SvelteKumquat: I think there’s a big difference between a class that’s designed well and a class that’s delivered well.
- @SvelteKumquat: GC has said this before, but maybe the rogue gameplay experience doesn’t deliver on the initial promise.
- @Ghostcrawler: I also think it’s fair that rogue spell visuals (or at least basic attacks) haven’t kept up with others
- @SvelteKumquat: For you personally, do monks offer a more engaging gameplay experience while leveling? (Too loaded a q?)
- @Ghostcrawler: If you were asking me, I’d rather hear that answer from players.
- @colhac: GC I recall you saying that a reason for decline was you cant 2-shot gank people anymore
- @Ghostcrawler: Does that affect population? Who knows? Warlocks have never been super popular either, and much of this doesn’t apply to them.
- @Ghostcrawler: I’d say it this way: WoW PvP can’t deliver on the fantasy of a true assassination. It wouldn’t be fun.
Rogues Are Still Raiding (6/1)
- @Thepsychofreak: what woudl make a raid leader chose a rogue over all those classes? not mentioning they are the only melee single role
- @Ghostcrawler: I don’t know that you *need* a rogue or any class. We don’t see rogues being sat though. Plenty of every class raiding.
Hit and Run: Not Dead Yet! (6/1)
- @jleskovjan: You should have worked harder on Hit and run. Sure the reticule isn’t for everyone, that is what other talents are for.
- @Ghostcrawler: Maybe we’ll try it again. We frequently have to make judgment calls when some players love and others hate a particular design.
Tier 15 4-Piece Bonus (5/29)
- @SvelteKumquat: New Post: What Problem Did the Rogue Tier 15 Four-Piece Solve? (And What Will Tier 16 Bring?) http://wp.me/p2VaAD-t8
- @Ghostcrawler: Neina was right. It was energy capping during AR. Low GCD helps burn energy, but not a solution we will use often.
- @Ghostcrawler: We are a bit defensive about GCD. Players always want less, because fast, responsive combat is fun.
- @Ghostcrawler: And while WoW combat is responsive (hint one of the secrets of our success) we are a server game and can’t do Street Fighter.
Shroud Broken in 5.3? (5/22)
- @Snacks19: Is shroud supposed to not put everyone in stealth anymore when they are moving? Nice ninja nerf. Always “to the ground”.
- @holinka: hm doesn’t sound intentional. Will have to investigate.
Include Shadow Focus in CnD? (5/17)
- @deceit5: in order to make shadow focus more competitive would consider rolling CnD into it 5.4 w/ all the AoE for openefs
- @holinka: I think that would be too strong
Melee Legendary Meta: Nerfed 5/16, Un-Nerfed 5/16 (5/16)
- @DeviousUn: Hey Greg, can you confirm or deny if the melee legendary meta got nerfed? Reports coming in of lowered (by half) proc rates.
- @Ghostcrawler: Some reports of server lag in 25s with lots of RPPM trinkets and gems.
- @Ghostcrawler: We added a small ICD to see if that would fix lag, but should not have dropped rated by half. We’ll investigate.
[one hour later]
- @Ghostcrawler: We reverted the RPPM ICD that I mentioned earlier. It was affecting DPS more than intended. We will try a different approach.
- @DeviousUn: Good to know! All melee on my friend’s list, forums and guild are reporting their overall damage done by the gem halved.
- @Ghostcrawler: Yeah looks like it went lower than we wanted. Our apologies. We’ll revert it, but we still need to solve the lag problem.
MfD Burst (5/15)
- @HydraMWIst: on http://Geoguessr.com – http://tinyurl.com/c9jzbrv – any plans to change marked for death? think its real problem re: rogue dmg
- @holinka: I guess you’re suggesting that two eviscerates in a row is the real problem?
- @HydraMWIst: I think so. Sustained damage talent could be an idea (A proc, or something, sub very CD dependant re pressure). May blog on this.
- @TrevorEckhoff: Ayume here, I also think mark/eviscerate are the real culprits. 2x 130k evis consistantly on geared players is not fun.
- @holinka: Honest question, do you feel it’s very different from pooling 10 combo points with Anticipation.
Potion of Luck and Junkboxes (5/15)
- @SvelteKumquat: No idea who could answer this one, buuuut… Do you know whether a Potion of Luck would work on junkboxes? (I’m figuring no.)
- @Daxxarri: Apparently the answer is indeed “no”. Let me know if you discover otherwise!
Why Kick Works So Well
- @Noxychu: There has been a wavering high pitched wail coming from outside for the past 2 hours. My head is going to explode.
- @Daxxarri: Confused banshee obv.
- @Noxychu: Come stab it in the face for me.
- @Daxxarri: I could do that. I hear that fae don’t like cold iron. Horseshoes also. Got any horseshoes?
- @Noxychu: Contrary to popular belief, Dallas is not in fact covered in horse .. stuff. ): so nope. I do have people shoes. No iron.
- @Cosmikyrie: iron-heeled tap shoes. ultimate weapon.
- @Daxxarri: Someone writing an urban fantasy should work a pair of those in somehow.
- @SvelteKumquat: I feel like this guy prob tried them initially, before settling on the hat instead. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHFqDjzkyQQ
- @Daxxarri: The rules: no proxies, no golden gun, no oddjob.
- @AlternativeChat: Rogues should get Colonel Rosa Klebb’s boots as standard. Just saying :P
- @Daxxarri: Why do you think Kick works so well?
Why +Crit Talents Went Away
- @SvelteKumquat: We’re waxing quasi-philosophical about rogues again (pp 7-8); takes me back to your feedback thread o yore. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7006348053?page=7
- @Daxxarri: Good discussion! It’s worth mentioning that the crit talents made the crit stat irrelevant; part of the reason they’re gone.
5.3 vs. 5.1
- @Belwarx: how do you feel about the balance between melee dps? i’m concerned about rogues, hope it won’t be like patch 5.0-5.1 again
- @holinka: I’ve said I think rogues will be better in 5.3 than they were in 5.1. Others disagree.
Clarifying ST Nerf
- @Shadesogrey: Curious – was the 5.3 change to Shuriken Toss primarly because of PvP damage?
- @holinka: We didn’t like that it was more efficient per energy than melee attacks
Fun With Holinka
- @Aulper7: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8796590874 … confirm or deny? Look at post 15
- @holinka: Nice photoshop there
- @TheBackstabi: Rogues are getting ideas, using fake quotes to blackmail for changes. http://i.imgur.com/Zz683S4.png http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8796590874?page=1
- @holinka: I’m pretty sure that wouldn’t even fit in the twitter character limit
Unholy DKs and Tricks [read blog post]
- @skanot: Reason behind Unholy Might nerf? Dks only receive nerfs in 5.3 (NS, Unholy Might, Sudden Doom), probably back to 5.1 state now
- @skanot: Can you give an answer? I know it was a pve change but it still hurts DKs alot in pvp..
- @holinka: We’re looking at it still. We think it has more to do with Tricks of the Trade than diseases.
- @Aulper7: Huh? What does a rogue skill have to do with affecting a DK skill?
- @holinka: Rogues can give you 15% more damage with tricks of the trade. It allows DK’s in PvE to get a lot of high spread damage.
- @Fromnowear: If Tricks still similar to Dark Intent (Cata), is that a good design? Priests don’t PI others anymore. Mages; no FM.
- @Ghostcrawler: The PI problem was it was a talent, so it felt too mandatory because you could use it on someone else.
- @VerainOfUrsin: Don’t nerf tricks b/c you can’t balance dots. Good rogues tricks right. Bad rogues want it deleted.
- @Ghostcrawler: ToT is fine overall. We just didn’t want it to push all DKs into Festerblight rotation.
5.3 Rogue Changes Done? [read blog post]
- @fate47: Lots of discussion with the Hunter and Rogue changes. Anything else you guys are keeping your eye on? Any other discussions?
- @holinka: happy with rogue/hunter changes. Still talking about affliction, holy pally and mage.
GC Hasn’t Looked at Rogue Pop Trends Lately
- @vipbrj: have you seen any changes in rogue population trends since 5.2?
- @Ghostcrawler: I haven’t looked lately TBH. Usually those trends take a long time to really isolate signal from noise.
Shadowstep vs. Other Classes [read blog post]
- @objectirl: do you think shadowstep measures up to other classes baseline mobility? if so, i would like to know why.
- @holinka: Low cooldown and instantly on target. Comparing to Ret, Enhance, Death Knight and even Warrior it’s very good. Monk may be better
- @holinka: not to mention automatically applied snare and shiv’d 70% snare.
- @Bludzeu: Not sure i would agree with your comparison to the other classes ret maybe, warrior and dk have high mobility
- @holinka: DK mobility = grip?
- @Bludzeu: I would argue that there def abilities contribute towards there high mobility, a high DK can stick to almost any target
- @holinka: cloak and ams are a wash, chilblains is a talent (unlike crippling), potentially many cc breaks but not mobility
- @holinka: but I agree warrior is a stretch
- @holinka: to be fair I forgot ferals which are also very mobile
Blood Horror and Subterfuge
- @darthadez: blood horror not working at all vs subterfuge working as intented or bug?
- @holinka: It sounds like a bug
- @cmdrsvn: Considering how specs/ talents work, may we see a removal of specs? I feel SV and Sub could be folded into the other two specs
- @Ghostcrawler: If we could do it all over again, those specs would be really different. Maybe it’s not too late.
CnD Nerfs and the Mobility Tier [read blog post]
- @loadeddreams: do you guys want to make rogues unplayable or what?
- @holinka: we wanted rogues better than they were in 5.1. We think they still are.
- @gridbread: so how do you plan on buffing CnD when everyone drops for Shadowstep again in 5.3?
- @holinka: Making talent choices interesting isn’t as important as making the game balanced and fun for everyone overall
- @CallMeFluffeh: I hope you remember why ST got a buff and why CND got in 5.2 not saying that they are fine now, but we might need smthing in return
- @holinka: to create talents that compete with shadowstep and anticipation. We overdid it. Marked for death, burst of speed still there.
- @balto55461572: rogue main problem was mobility, nerf CnD, BoS not viable. Any change on step having double charge?? or reset on dance
- @holinka: In 5.1 the main complaint was survivability. Cloak and Dagger was a talent to compete with Shadowstep but was overboard.
- @Emophia: Noone is going to take it now. Might as well remove it and replace it. It was only useful to sub, now its useful 2 No1
- @holinka: it’s likely we’ll revisit that row in 5.4
- @PkMnHunter: Now the community won’t have to take rogues seriously like 5.0. Looking forward to getting lol’d at & swatted away.
- @holinka: I think people can “not take Rogues seriously” to their own peril in 5.3
- @Rei_Irr: cloak and dagger doesn’t work with dance, nerf to find weaknes + other nerfs = rogues will be worse than in 5.1, is it your goal?
- @holinka: Rogues will be better off than 5.1. I have no problem making that claim.
- @Rei_Irr: worse than in 5.1, find weakness+moblity got nerfed + pvp power nerf affect burst classes the most
- @holinka: you must not remember everything that changed between 5.1 and 5.2
- @3issaxx: In what ways? 20 more energy and nerfed damage
- @holinka: baseline prep and reduced cloak cooldown, marked for death as option
5.3 CnD Nerf Yes; Subterfuge Nerf No [read blog post]
- @ShlayerHK: so to clear this up CND doesnt work with dance?
- @holinka: correct
- @ProdeGaming: You’d be the best designer if it didn’t work for Subterfuge either.
- @holinka: Many people were calling for Subterfuge to be nerfed and we aren’t make a change there.
Listening to Top Rogues [read blog post]
- @jamesfromvenice: In 5.1, ROGUES Begged YOU to listen to top rogues on the dire 5.1release. U ignored. Rogues were HORRIBLE! IgnoreAgain in 5.3?
- @Ghostcrawler: Then we listened to them for 5.2 and rogues became OP. And so it goes….
- @lsam13000_cos: the problem is hunter and sp, no rogue.
- @Ghostcrawler: We just disagree. We think the problem is hunter, Shadow and rogue.
- @Yes_I_Khan: Well, GC if you really listened to rogues they never asked for CnD, MfD or more energy. Backstab damage.
- @Ghostcrawler: There is a story that people never asked Ford for cars either.
Shadowstep Usage in 5.3 [read blog post]
- @loadeddreams: looks like the mobility tier is back to being the shadowstep button
- @holinka: yes this is certainly not what we want but it doesn’t mean a bad talent should exist
- @holinka: by “bad talent” I meant one that makes the overall gameplay worse, not one that’s unattractive
- @holinka: we would prefer all talents be attractive but if one isn’t the overall game doesn’t suffer as much
- @objectirl: why don’t you want rouges to use shadowstep?
- @holinka: we want them to use it. We’d also like an equally balanced option in that row.
- @darthadez: some choose BoS, so SdS is not the only choice, contrary to tier where 100% of the pvp pick subterfuge
- @holinka: I think some will try Shadow Focus now that Cloak and Dagger isn’t the clear choice.
Is a Balanced Mobility Tier Possible? [read blog post]
- @SvelteKumquat: Is there any way to set up a rogue mobility tier that won’t result in the entire e-planet flocking to one talent?
- @SvelteKumquat: (I ask that w/ no malice; this juggling act seems to be taking place on an extremely narrow wire.)
- @Ghostcrawler: We think so. We were just too generous with Cloak and Dagger. We were nervous BoS would be more popular.
- @Ghostcrawler: It’s really hard sometimes to predict the popularity of abilities without an easily measurable benefit (e.g. speed).
- @jleskovjan: Part of the problem is that cnd has such great synergy with shadowdance.
- @SvelteKumquat: And with that synergy removed, is the talent truly rendered utterly useless (relatively speaking)?
- @jleskovjan: Is it ok for one talent to be nerfed to uselessness for the other specs because of that synergy?
- @SvelteKumquat: If 5.2 CnD truly was only valuable when used w/ ShD, then it arguably wasn’t well designed to begin with.
- @holinka: Yes? But that doesn’t mean don’t fix the problem.
Holinka Responds to Angry Rogues [read blog post]
- @karthus_eredar: what class do you want rogues to re-roll next patch?
- @holinka: definitely not throwgue
- @karthus_eredar: R.I.P Rogue class May/03/13
- @holinka: #worldstiniestviolin
- @Whastrapnin: Utter, utter wanker. RIDICULOUS rogue nerfs, but guess what! No fucking mage nerfs OBVIOUSLY, AND NO FUCKING HUNTER NERF EITHER
- @holinka: no hunter nerf? I don’t think you’re paying attention
Clarifications on 5.3 CnD, Find Weakness Changes [read blog post]
- @Jeff60338516: is there a bug with the ptr ? shadowdancing and CnD not working? is this a bug or real life?
- @holinka: real life
- @ShlayerHK: so to clear this up CND doesnt work with dance?
- @holinka: correct
- @guitarstephensw: perhaps keep CnD on dance due to find weakness and toss nerfs? 20%burst nerf and along with dance nerf seems harsh
- @holinka: 20% on find weakness is 50% less armor reduction. Very different from 20% less damage.
- @JRoosy: CnD nerfed to 20 yards, find weakness nerfed, glyphs nerfed and now cnd with dance nerfed? Looking forward to playing rogue…not
- @holinka: CnD’s range is back to 30 yards, but no longer usable unless stealthed
GC Happy With CP System
- @Keffez: How happy are you with the combo point style of resource management?
- @Ghostcrawler: Happy. We think it’s more interesting than cooldown-driven rotations.
Find Weakness Change in 5.3 [read blog post]
- @holinka: Going to get out in front of this one. Find Weakness is now 50% against players (100% for mobs)
- @Aulper7: 50% as it it grants 50% armor reduc or 35% armor reduc?
- @holinka: The former, 50%
- @Aulper7: Ahh ok…so I ask….why change it to provide 100% armor reduction to mobs? What to not strong enough in PvE?
- @holinka: Yes they needed a buff in PvE but it would have been too much for PvP
- @Lemmi14: meh, just a 20% reduc from 70, no ones going to complain. You’ll be very disappointed haha.
- @holinka: Oh someone is always disappointed.
- @FlawlessLogic1: Rescinding one of my last tweets about PTR rogue ArP change. Will there be a tool tip saying 50%pvp?
- @Ghostcrawler: There will be a 50% cap on Find Weakness in PvP, whether it’s tooltipped or not.
The Power of the Dance
- @VerainOfUrsin: Do agree that dance is too strong this expac. But don’t think I like being nerfed, you nerferer. er.
- @holinka: I think in 5.2 dance’s synergy with CnD is too powerful. Dance is fine otherwise.
- @Aulper7: But if CnD didnt have synergy with Dance no one would take it. I dont think combat and mut take CnD anyway do they?
- @holinka: I don’t think so. One thing we’re learning is that talent variety shouldn’t trump the overall gameplay environment.
- @Aulper7: Ill be honest….I dont know what you mean by trumping overall gameplay enviorment :P
- @holinka: Makes the game worse for everybody
- @HeroJez: How much would you like Crit, Haste and Mastery to be just as good as one another for all specs, allowing freedom for style?
- @Ghostcrawler: It’s tricky. If they are all interchangeable, then you don’t look at the stats at all. Better would be if you can feel the delta.
- @Ghostcrawler: For some casters, you can really feel diff between a high crit and high haste build. I wish it felt more so for everyone.
- @Ghostcrawler: Then the stats could be equal value while the decision was still meaningful.
If Rogues Had Tri Spec
- @Kregor835: Is there a reason not to add it? Dual spec was a phenomenal success. I imagine tri spec will be too.
- @Ghostcrawler: We added talents in vanilla so rogue 1 and rogue 2 could be different. With tri spec, what if every rogue feels the same again?
- @tweetnasti: if you were really serious about this statement, a character would be permanently limited to 2 of the 3 specs.
- @Ghostcrawler: I do worry sometimes that dual spec solved a problem (talent points were a pain to rebuy) that no longer exists.
- @MrMadguy: And how about “bring player – not spec” argument?
- @Ghostcrawler: Unless you are on heroic Lei Shen, you can probably play any spec you want and be fine. This was not the case in Sunwell.
- @Ghostcrawler: In Sunwell, you had to stack certain classes to get the right buff / debuff matrix. That is what “bring the player” was all about.
Cooler Rogue Attacks? [read blog post]
- @DMJops: All rogues already feel the same. Class needs an attack animation retooling/spec uniqueness in order to attract players.
- @DMJops: Rogue has never looked pretty while attacking. I actually race changed to a female undead to give my character some character.
- @DMJops: Look at monk attack animations. The players’ reward for doing their role correctly is that their screen looks beautiful. Cont
- @DMJops: Spec individualism is an issue for rogues as well. No difference at all between spec playstyle, resource system, and attacks.
- @DMJops: i.e. backstab looks like sinister strike looks like hemo looks like dispatch etc. All finishers look the same too.
- @Ghostcrawler: We are working long term on making rogue and warrior attacks cooler, since we agree that they look the most bland while fighting.
No Upcoming Survivability Talent Tier Changes
- @Mirox30994: Hey, any chance of looking into rogue 45lvl tier talent(pvp survival), elusiveness is absolutely mandatory choice here.
- @holinka: No plans at this point
- @Mirox30994: Is rupture/snd overwriting them selves with lower amount of combo points working as intended or bug?
- @holinka: Dots snapshot stats when applied so rupture is intentional. SnD case is Sub only due to mastery
- @Fromnowear: So SnD can re-write because of changing Mastery values? What if the value doesn’t change in-between applications?
- @holinka: I think it still overwrites it even if the mastery is the same
- @Fromnowear: Hmm, seems a bit silly to me to re-write if nothing has changed and fewer CPs used for a lower duration. Fix or keep?
- @Fromnowear: Just feels analogous to “you already have a more powerful spell active” msg elsewhere.
- @holinka: It’s a consistency thing. Not everyone is looking at their stats. Better to know it always works this way for sub
RoO Proc Problems
- @Alarinth: PPM bad-streak protection, does it suggest a 5 min break between pulls is optimal? It promotes boring gameplay if so. :(
- @Ghostcrawler: If you are out of combat for even a minute, you should get the hit on one of your first few attacks.
- @Tinderhoof: This isn’t working right now for Rune of ReOrigination. There is 0 bad luck bad-streak protection happening.
- @Ghostcrawler: This is just a bug. We fixed it but it broke again. It will be fixed again next restarts.
CoS and Vanish Bugs
- @ZachDixon93: Do you currently know about Cloak of shadows and vanish bugging with certain spells. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59mXtLfj7mE … Made this video to show
- @holinka: Tried to watch but the video had problems (besides the choice of music ;-D )
- @ZachDixon93: had to pick something not copyrighted but should work, no space to type its whole problem here. but its explained at the end of vid
- @holinka: Soul Reaper is considered a physical attack so that’s why Cloak doesn’t work. We’ll talk about it. Vanish side is a bug
Nether Tempest Keeps Us in Combat
- @Will82139200: Are you aware of the bug where Nether Tempest keeps players in combat for the full duration?
- @holinka: We made a change in 5.3 that if you are alone with it on you, then you will go out of combat
Hemo + Sang Vein
- @BrianMcDonald93: Holinka, is there any way rogues could have hemo work for sanguinary vein again? It would be a nice quality of life change.
- @holinka: I think it would have big implications on PvE rotation but something to consider for the future
Buffs to Backstab/Hemo for PvP
- @Yasko89 @holinka rogues need bs/hemo buff and dance damage nerf, all mage damage, hunter cc nerf. comment on any changes?
- @holinka: all on the radar
Clarifications on ST Change
- @Cbitx: Can you plz explain the reason behind making ST (which is already very strong in dmg, CP generation, & ranged attack) more bursty?
- @holinka: Patience young cbitx
- @ArturKaczkowski: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw8Xvt5EQBY&feature=youtu.be … St fun, lets make rogue strongest melee in game.I know im spamming a bit;)
- @holinka: the net change for Shuriken Toss between 5.2 and 5.3 is double energy cost, same damage & same damage no matter the range
- @BWiklander: So more dmg when close and less when far or just reduced to the previous minimum range damage?
- @holinka: Reduced to the previous minimum range damage
- @Synkz907: I enjoyed the back to back 100k ST crits on the Mage with FW up. That seems balanced, good work team
- @holinka: Glad to hear you’re having a good time!
- @ArturKaczkowski: Tbh you shouldnt be ironic cause it really made me almost quit game on my mage.Such things destroy game
- @holinka: He is being sarcastic and critical about a spell we just nerfed.
- @BWiklander: well each ST will hit for more, so from 100k to 200k, but still nerf.
- @holinka: ST will not hit for more. It will hit for the same but it’s cost has doubled.
- @RigelWoW: ST deals the same damage in 5.3? The notes I saw had its damage being doubled along with energy cost. Has that been changed?
- @holinka: We also removed the part where your damage is doubled beyond 10 yards
- @gridbread: So making sure I understand: initial Toss damage/cost is doubled baseline, ranged autoattack damage isn’t increased?
- @holinka: You were doing so well gridbeard :-( There is a part of 5.2 ST that doubles the damage beyond 10 yards, we removed it
- @gridbread: Followup: Toss autoattack dmg was adjusted because of Special calculations. I assume that’s not changing?
- @holinka: The autoattack doesn’t trigger unless you cast it beyond 10 yards
- @drm316: Why do you keep ignoring the requests to reduce/remove caster pushback?? I’ve not seen a single answer.
- @drm316: and I mean the pushback caused by the auto attack portion.
- @holinka: Because we are nerfing other parts of it already. You are asking for us to gut it
- @VerainOfUrsin: Is goal to reduce control at range or prevent ST for CP spam? I assumed 2nd. Don’t want to whine about intended control nerf.
- @Ghostcrawler: Mostly the second.
- @Aulper7: With all this talk about ST what are your guys’ feelings on MfD and Anticipation OP/Ok/Weak?
- @holinka: Anticipation dominated until ST came around. We will see
- @Yasko89: do u like tht rogues only play sub? i loved mutilate is wrath wht area does it need help in in your opinion?
- @holinka: I think a few if the new talents play well with sub so people prefer it. But mut could be good for pressure comp
ST Too Strong
- @MikeAltamirano: In your opinion do Rogues need a ranged combo point generator? Impossible to kite Rogues.
- @holinka: “Need” is a strong word. We think it is an interesting talent choice but need tuning
- @Amulrei: Not to be rude but I fail to see how it is interesting at all. It’s a complete no-brainer, at least in PvP.
- @holinka: Due to tuning
Making Quaffables Not Break Stealth
- @davidcorrick: Potting as a Rogue is annoying, possible to allow pots usable in stealth?
- @Ghostcrawler: That doesn’t seem unreasonable. We’ll discuss.
PvP Level 90 Talent Popularity
- @ChritznL: Shuriken toss: remove autoattack, increase cost to 30energy, and less dmg. Every1 specced ST before 5.2 for pvp, it was fine.
- @holinka: Actually ST was not highly taken before 5.2. We try to make talents attractive but sometimes we overshoot
- @ChritznL: Anticipation: Pve, versatility was useless. Everyone specced shuriken toss for PvP. MfD is also good, but autoattack is too much.
- @Aulper7: I like the new ST,but I would argue that ST was THE most popular PvP talent pre 5.2. Which talent did your stats say was?
- @holinka: anticipation
Recuperate *Will* Benefit From PvP Power
- @fell9903: any word on recup/second wind/conversion being nerf by the increase in battle fatigue? are you going to compensate them at all?
- @holinka: Yes we are going to allow them to benefit from PvP Power
- @Yasko89: for most classes straight stats like int/agi are better for pure damage, this change to make pvppower more attractive?
- @holinka: This change is to avoid Battle Fatigue reducing the effect of those healing spells too much
- @Fromnowear: Just easier/more consistent than %heals ignoring Battle Fatigue instead?
- @holinka: % heals tuned for pve. This way we can also tune for pvp
- @ChritznL: Would be nice of shadow blades visual effect= dark version of warglaives, since palas get ashbringer :p Thoughts?
- @holinka: Pretty cool idea
- @ChritznL: Glad you like it :)
- @ChritznL: Also, any word on the poison proc animation I’ve mentioned earlier? Green glowy hands + “endcasting” animation, looked awesome.. :)
- @holinka: I know it is on our radar
Fist Animations = Unarmed Animations
- @jleskovjan: Have you considered adding a sheath animation for fist weapons? Most of them are just blades that can be worn across the back.
- @Ghostcrawler: From a technical standpoint, there is no difference between fist weapons and unarmed attacks. That’s just the way it was built.
Recuperate May Benefit From PvP Power
- @jjones186: And whats happening with % heals which see nothing from pvp power?
- @Ghostcrawler: Not sure yet. One idea: all classes have heals benefit from PvP Power. Recup etc. would get stronger and offset Battle Fatigue.
February 2013 Tweets
Haileaus’s and Daxxari’s Rogue Origins
- @Daxxarri: Some /r/WoW posts got me thinking about what it was like playing World of Warcraft for the first time. Tell me your starting out story!
- @haileaus: Being shocked and delighted at my brother for letting me make a character on his account. Was my rogue, obv.
- @Daxxarri: Have you always played a Rogue, Hai? My first WoW character was a Rogue, and while I do enjoy other classes, I still love it.
- @haileaus: Pretty much. I have a 86 war that I play when I wanna chain pull. Sometimes lvl others, had horde dk I hated before faction xfers.
Are BloodDKs Outdamaging Rogues in PvP?
- @AtrumSanctus: blood (476i) solo 2 rogues (500/485i) + mage (485i). comf w/ this? tank damage is ridic, dps in raids is overboard, esp blood.
- @Ghostcrawler: Tank damage shouldn’t be ridiculous when fighting rogues, because they lack Vengeance.
- @AtrumSanctus: Sorry, that’s simply not the case.
- @Ghostcrawler: You’re saying a Blood DK does more damage than a rogue in PvP?
Obsessive Thing Over Poison Proc Visuals
- @ChritznL: Any chance to see old poison proc animation for Rogues in 5.2? Would be a GREAT minor glyph, I loved the visual back then.
- @Ghostcrawler: It’s a technical issue. Weapons can only display one enchant effect at a time. A common request though so maybe there’s an answer.
- @ChritznL: It was mostly a glow on your hands though. You finally answered me on that Q tho, gives me hope :D
- @ChritznL: Your hands glowed green, and you had like a “endcasting” animation
- @ChritznL: http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/2557/vlcsnap46840cv9.png … & http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/672/vlcsnap43450kv7.png … That’s what it looked like, couldn’t find a better quality :/
- @ChritznL: You ment the poison dripping off of our daggers, but that’s not it. Take a look at the pics, it’s on the hands, like Coldblood
- @ChritznL: That’s also why I loved Coldblood so much, Having an icy glow on our hands, and green when poisons procced.
- @ChritznL: I need to know that you know what I mean! The poison proc had an endcasting animation & glowy hands, no poison dripping. :D
- @Ghostcrawler: You just want the permanent hand glow?
- @ChritznL: Well it’s not permanent, but when poisons proc.. If it would proc too often, you could make it work with cripp proc only.
- @ChritznL: Crippling poison proc* It would be an amazing glyph. :) What do you think?
- @ChritznL: Is it something that would be hard to implement, or is it easy? :) Pretty sure alot of veteran rogues would love it back :)
- @ChritznL: Would love a Yes/No answer on this, but atleast you know what I mean now, glad you responded. *Crosses fingers for a Yes*