On Twitter: New Subtlety PvP Nerf; Devs Respond to Flood of Patch 5.3 Rogue Tears — Updated 5/8

[UPDATE 5/4-5/8: Since I first posted this, Holinka clarified the new CnD change and noted that the previous range nerf is being reverted. I've also added a whole mess of additional, related tweets from Holinka and Ghostcrawler at the end of the post.]

Since the most recent Patch 5.3 PTR build yesterday, a number of Subtlety rogue players on the PTR have reported that Cloak and Dagger no longer works while they’re in Shadow Dance. The synergy between these two abilities has been one of the bread-and-butter rogue combos during Patch 5.2, and has helped propel rogues — specifically Subtlety rogues — to the top of the arena heap.

When added to the other changes already in store for Patch 5.3, what we’re seeing is a very clear attempt to 1) tone down rogue burst and CC abilities in general, and 2) try to make Assassination and Combat feel like they’re worth trying in PvP as well (mainly by making Sub less attractive).

PvP chief Brian Holinka and Ghostcrawler let forth a flurry of tweets (many featuring his refreshingly unapologetic tongue-in-cheek humor) in response to the frustration many rogues have expressed with this steady flow of rogue PvP nerfs for Patch 5.3. I shall unleash them on you below the cut; I’m too lazy to set up anchored links so you’ll have to scroll through them, but they’re split roughly into these minicategories:

• Tweets Clearing Up the CnD Change
• Offsetting the 5.1 Changes
• What About Subterfuge?
• Has Rogue PvP Been Ruined for 5.3?
• Re-Examining the Mobility Talent Tier (Part I)
• Re-Examining the Mobility Talent Tier (Part II)
• Ignorance About Being Ignored
• What About Patch 5.4?

Read Full Post »

Patch 5.3 Datamine/Patch Note: Cloak and Dagger Range Reduced by 33% — Updated 4/29

[UPDATE 5/3: This change appears to have been reverted -- or will soon be reverted -- on the PTR, and replaced with a different CnD nerf.]

[UPDATE 4/29: Since first posting this, I've added two tweets to the bottom of the post -- one affirming there are no changes in the works for Shadowstep, the other warning that they may not be done quite yet with the Cloak and Dagger nerfs. I also tweaked the second paragraph to note that the change made it into the official patch notes; it was just a datamine from 4/25 until 4/29.]

Remember how last night I wrote that the Blizzard class design folks were thinking about a possible Cloak and Dagger change? Welp, looks like they’re done thinking, and are actually implementing one: According to the newest datamined info from the Patch 5.3 PTR (as found by Wowhead and MMO-Champion), the level-60 talent option has had its range reduced from 30 yards to 20 yards.

This has yet to be confirmed in the official patch notes, but was confirmed in an April 29 update to the official Patch 5.3 PTR notes. Even before they became officially official (in an official way), though, PvP honcho Brian Holinka had tipped us off when he tweeted earlier they were considering a tweak to CnD so that other options in that tier might become a little more attractive to competitive PvPers.

If this is indeed the tweak Blizzard has decided on, it suggests that the designers’ main issue with CnD is not merely its burst potential when coupled with Shadow Dance, but specifically the synergy of that burst with the teleport. A decrease in the ability’s range equals a decrease in rogue mobility, and makes it likely that a rogue will have to do more than just pop CnD to resume unloading on a mage who just used Blink (which, as it happens, teleports the mage 20 yards away).

Of course, the range on Shadowstep thus far remains unchanged, which is part of the point: to make the level-60 talent tier a more interesting choice for PvPers.

It remains to be seen, of course, whether a nerf (in addition to the other three nerfs we know are already planned for rogue PvP in 5.3 — to Shuriken Toss, Glyph of Cheap Shot and Glyph of Garrote) to a wildly popular new talent is the best way to go about this, and what impact it has on rogue viability in high-end PvP in the next patch. Reaction in the official WoW rogue forum has been mixed thus far.

[UPDATE 4/25:] To those who might wish Shadowstep (or Burst of Speed) were getting a buff instead of CnD getting a nerf, Holinka has this to say:

@Homedawgggg No plans to buff shadow step. Cloak and Dagger is too good.—
Holinka (@holinka) April 25, 2013

[UPDATE 4/26:] And for those of you hoping this is the end of the road for nerfs, keep that breath held in tight:

@christofalee @ChritznL We are considering more changes. Mostly toning it down.—
Holinka (@holinka) April 26, 2013

Read Full Post »

On Twitter: Cloak and Dagger May See Tweaks for 5.3

[UPDATE 4/25: A Patch 5.3 datamine and subsequent tweets appear to show that Cloak and Dagger has indeed been tweaked -- and that further ability changes may be coming as well.]

When they added Cloak and Dagger to our level-60 talent tier in Patch 5.2 (where it replaced Preparation, which became a baseline ability), Ghostcrawler and Daxxarri explained the move like thus-ish:

Combined with dropping out of combat to re-stealth, Shadow Dance, and the Subterfuge talent, we expect that it can be used to accomplish some pretty interesting things.

And boy howdy, were they right. The burst opportunity offered by CnD coupled with Shadow Dance helped catapult our Subtlety spec back into the PvP stratosphere, and served as one of the driving forces behind rogues’ sudden resurgence in competitive PvP over the past two months.

Perhaps inevitably, it also resulted in this:

@Aulper7 @Ghostcrawler And on the other side of that coin, do any Sub PvP rogues *not* take CnD? Seems almost required for arena comps.—
Rfeann Berougin (@SvelteKumquat) April 24, 2013

@SvelteKumquat @Aulper7 @Ghostcrawler Yes it is most popular with rogues. We're discussing options for Cloak and Dagger for 5.3—
Holinka (@holinka) April 24, 2013

Blizzfolk have stated, time and again, that they don’t want 1) everybody ignoring a talent in a given tier or 2) everybody taking the same talent in a given tier. CnD is the only talent worth considering for Sub rogues in PvP, and Sub is pretty much the only PvP game in town right now, so it’s not a surprise that the designers are considering a change.

I’m skeptical this is the way to go. The crowd-control nerfs already in store for rogues in 5.3 could impact their PvP viability, and the PvE trinket changes will already tone down some burst for those who use it. A nerf to CnD (which I’d figure would most likely involve adding a cooldown, though they could also alter its range or change the abilities it can be used with) at this stage feels like it might be overkill given that the full impact of the already-planned changes is unknown.

It’s also an oft-used Blizzard mantra that they try to nerf only as a last resort, because they generally feel so unsatisfying for players. What might be more interesting, if overpopularity of CnD is a concern, is to make a couple of improvements to the other movement abilities in that talent tier — reduce Shadowstep’s cooldown, perhaps, or allow Burst of Speed to break roots.

Of course, what Holinka could be implying with his tweet is that CnD may be changed to make it attractive to *other* specs in addition to Sub. Or to help make the other two specs a little more viable in high-end PvP — perhaps by allowing the rogue to restealth in the process of teleporting, or by adding Envenom/Eviscerate (or Mutilate/Sinister Strike) to the list of abilities it can be used for, though none of those ideas feel particularly well-balanced to me.

But I’m just a PvE player. What do I know of such things? If any of you out there are avid PvPers, I’d be eager for some edumucation on a reasonable approach to CnD’s overuse (and what can realistically be done about it in the short term).

Read Full Post »

On Twitter: Was Cold Blood Just “Talent Fodder”?

I daresay some rogues would beg to differ.

@ChritznL When we dropped the old talent tree, we pulled as many passives as we could. Many were there just to provide talent fodder.—
Greg Street (@Ghostcrawler) February 16, 2013

It’s been several months now since the Mists parted — and took Cold Blood with them, along with many other abilities from our old talent trees — but a number of players are still pining over its loss (among others).

Personally, I don’t miss it much. As a casual-but-committed raider from late Wrath through Cata, I found Cold Blood a hassle: I felt required to weave it into my rotation because it was a DPS loss not to, but despite having to watch that cooldown timer like a hawk and properly time its use with a 5-combo-point Envenom/Eviscerate, the ability had precious little impact on my overall damage output. I never saw its value, though I could envision usefulness in PvP when a guaranteed crit could mean the difference between life and death.

That said, I’m surprised to see it referred to as “passive” and “talent fodder.” It was an actual button you had to push, after all, and it had always seemed like a pretty iconic ability for Assassination rogues even for those of us who didn’t like it overly much.

This isn’t the first time GC has tweeted about Cold Blood, incidentally; several months back he also panned it for having contributed to rogues’ devaluation of critical strike rating. (I’d argue that low EP values had a little more to do with that, but to each his own. :) )

Read Full Post »

Ruffy Rants: In 5.2, Anticipation Will Likely Still Be the Belle of the Ball

I’ve got some catching up to do with Ghostcrawler rogue tweets; leave it to a cold to snot away a normally-obsessive-compulsive person’s motivation for twitstalking. This one’s from more than a week ago:

@Aulper7 Have you looked at the 5.2 patch notes?

—
Greg Street (@Ghostcrawler) January 12, 2013

 

Without a doubt, it’s looking like our level-90 talent tier options in Patch 5.2 will be much closer (in terms of their value) in raids and challenge-mode dungeons. Shuriken Toss will allow us to autoattack at range, dramatically increasing its power, and Marked for Death’s five free combo points per minute provides us with a nice little active-DPS bump that may be especially useful for burst situations.

But is either change enough to unseat Anticipation as the talent of choice in end-game PvE?

The gist of the feedback over at Elitist Jerks is that few expect ST or MfD to win out. I’m no whiz-bang theorycrafter, but I’m inclined to agree: It’s hard for me to envision many scenarios in which, *over the course of an entire raid fight*, it would be more valuable for me to

1. deal decent DPS at range or
2. gain 5 extra CPs per minute,

instead of using Anticipation, which guarantees me that I will

1. almost never waste a combo point and
2. never have to settle for a four-point finisher instead of a five-point finisher.

As of this post, we know next to nothing about most fights in the upcoming raid tier, so there is always a possibility that a surprising number of fight mechanics will favor the buffed ST or the new MfD. But I was one of a number of rogues who, back in the Mists beta, said the same thing about ST and our soon-to-be-dearly-departed level-90 talent Versatility. “But wait!” said I, I said. “Who knows how many raid fights in Mists will require a huge amount of target switching! Or constant running around at range like a maniac?”

I did a Google image search for “maniac.” This came up. How could I not?

The answer turned out to be: Basically none. Or, at least, not enough of a given raid fight required those things to make it more valuable to choose the “old” ST or Versatility over Anticipation.

Maybe that experience has made me more cynical this time around, and I’m being unfair in my negativity. Then again:

For Shuriken Toss — buffed or not — to be more desirable than Anticipation in a given raid fight, it likely means that the fight itself needs to be brutally unfriendly to melee DPS. Designing a fight like that feels like it’d be fundamentally against Blizzard’s current approach to encounter design, which is to allow for a wide range of classes to be viable.

For Marked for Death to be more desirable than Anticipation, we’d need to gain more DPS through getting a magically full CP bar once per minute than we would by never losing a combo point. In most standard fights, that feels unlikely to happen. *Especially* not for Assassination rogues, who gain two CPs (and sometimes three, thanks to Seal Fate) every time they use Mutilate, thus guaranteeing that they’ll be Envenoming at 4 CPs without Anticipation.

But it’s not just Assassination rogues who lose out if they drop Anticipation. Our new-in-Mists DPS cooldown, Shadow Blades (which adds an extra CP onto every CP-building move we use), ensures that other specs lose out, too. Shadow Blades all but requires Anticipation if we want to use it to maximum effectiveness; otherwise we’re either wasting CPs while it’s active, or we’re using smaller finishers.

The only scenario in which I can see MfD potentially being worth that kind of trade-off is a fight that involves a tremendous amount of target switching or a lot of spawning/despawning targets, such that we don’t have a lot of uptime on our targets (reducing the effectiveness of Shadow Blades and reducing the number of CPs we even have the opportunity to gain on our targets). In that scenario, being able to guarantee a quick 5-CPs-and-BAM could be pretty handy. Especially if burst matters.

Let’s kick this rogue up another notch!

But, for the same reason it seems unlikely that we’re going to see raid fights that punish melee DPS enough to make Shuriken Toss the best choice, it feels unlikely we’re going to see raid fights that punish DPS who can’t frequently switch targets all that well.

It may be that the best we can really hope for in Patch 5.2 is that, for those of us who *do* choose to go with Shuriken Toss or MfD on raid fights because we find those abilities more fun to use than Anticipation, our DPS won’t suffer quite as much for our decision as it would have before Patch 5.2.

Read Full Post »

Patch 5.2 Datamining Update: Blade Flurry Affects 4 Targets; Say Hello to ‘Cloak and Dagger’

MMO-Champion and Wowhead have datamined what appears to be the second Patch 5.2 PTR build (though as of this post, no new build was yet in place on the PTR server and which looks like it hit the PTR server within a few hours afterward). I’ve incorporated the new rogue changes into my big ol’ collection of datamined info, but here’s a layman’s summary of the apparent changes from the previous build. Please note, again, that datamining is notoriously unreliable and may not match up with official patch notes or the designers’ ultimate plans.

• The nerfed Blade Flurry will still copy 25% of damage, down from 100% on the live servers. However, that damage will now be copied onto *up to four* nearby targets, up from one. The energy regen penalty remains in place.
• Cloak and Dagger appears to have finally replaced Hit and Run in the level-60 talent tier. (This is the spot that replaces Preparation, which is going baseline.) Here’s a  video from wavefunctionp of him testing out the ability on the PTR.
• The Burst of Speed tooltip has been updated to reflect what’s in the official patch preview notes: It costs 30 energy, down from 50 on the live servers, and it now breaks “movement-slowing” effects rather than “movement-impairing” effects (meaning it’ll still break snares/slows, but not roots).
• The Sanguinary Vein buff that’s already in the official patch preview notes now appears in the PTR tooltip.
• Our Tier 15 (new raid gear) set bonuses appear to be:
  • Two piece: Increases the duration of your finishing moves as if you had used an additional combo point, up to a maximum of 6 combo points.
  • Four piece: Shadow Blades also reduces the cost of all your abilities by 40%.

Be sure to check out my full datamined 5.2 rogue changes post and my official 5.2 patch notes post for more complete info on all upcoming changes.

Read Full Post »

On Twitter: Shuriken Toss Autoattacks in 5.2 Are All That and a Bag of Chips

I’ll include a mini-glossary below these tweets; there are a ton of abbreviations.

@Ghostcrawler Re:rogues.ST on PRT is currently procing HaT for sub from the autoatks, & cpotency for combat. Intended?

—
Ambassador LUE (@AmbassadorLUE) January 09, 2013

@AmbassadorLUE All of that (including the procs) is intended.

—
Greg Street (@Ghostcrawler) January 09, 2013

 

Actually, forget about the mini-glossary, let me just de-twittify the language (how cool would it be if Google Translate had something like THAT?):

Ambassador LUE: “Regarding rogues: Shuriken Toss autoattacks on the Patch 5.2 PTR are currently proccing Honor Among Thieves (for Subtlety) and Combat Potency (for Combat). Is this intended? Also, Shuriken Toss autoattacks seem to be using the yellow (special) hit table as opposed to the white (melee autoattack) hit table; they’re showing up as yellow damage.”

Ghostcrawler: “Yep, you bet your sweet ass.”

I haven’t been keeping up on the discussions around Shuriken Toss on the PTR, but this is… pretty remarkable. And confusing — because, if I’m thinking about this right, it suggests that autoattacking from range with ST will deal *considerably* more damage than autoattacking with your actual stabby weapons.

To back up a moment: “Yellow” damage is damage dealt by our special abilities, such as combo point builders (Mutilate, Sinister Strike, Backstab) and finishing moves (Envenom, Eviscerate, Rupture). We strive to reach the “yellow” hit cap (3% against level-90 targets; 7.5% against raid bosses) so that these hugely important abilities will have as high as possible a chance to hit the target.

“White” damage is damage dealt by our melee autoattacks. The “white” hit cap is drastically higher than the yellow cap (22% against level-90 targets; 26.5% against raid bosses), and it’s not considered important (or even mathematically possible) to reach it for either PvP or PvE. As a result, our autoattacks miss our targets pretty often.

The twitversation above suggests that will continue to be the case when we’re within melee range. However, when we’re more than 10 yards away from our target and using our super-duper-new-and-improved Shuriken Toss (now with autoattack goodness!), our ranged autoattacks will behave similarly to a hunter’s autoattacks — we only need to be at the yellow cap to ensure they all hit.

Between that and the already-doubled damage Shuriken Toss deals at >10 yards, this talent may well turn us into a solidly viable kiting class — though it’s still unlikely, in and of itself, to seriously compete with actually stabbing our enemies, since the only damaging finisher we can use from range is Deadly Throw, and the only CC ability we can use from range is Blind. If I’m recalling correctly, at least.

This is all likely to make the “what talent to take at 90″ conversation a whole heck of a lot more interesting in both PvE and PvP, though.

———–

UPDATE 1/9/13: GC is clarifying some aspects of the ability; feels more appropriate to add it to this post than create a new one, so:

@Aulper7 They are supposed to be physical. It might have been Shadow in a very early build.

—
Greg Street (@Ghostcrawler) January 09, 2013

 

Also wanna toss in the links to a some of the more constructive, currently active WoW forum threads on Shuriken Toss:

• Rogue forum: one and two
• PTR Discussion forum: one and two

Read Full Post »

On Twitter: It’ll Definitely Be Cloak & Dagger, Not Hit & Run, Ghostcrawler Says — Updated 1/11

(Post updated 1/7 and 1/11 with additional tweets.)

Staying consistent with his earlier tweet on this subject, Ghostcrawler affirmed today that, in Patch 5.2, the level-60 talent option that will replace Preparation (which will become a baseline ability all rogues learn at level 68) is indeed going to be Cloak and Dagger, not the Hit and Run ability that is currently on the PTR.

 

@EpyonTV It's Cloak and Dagger. The targeting reticule and time teleport for Hit and Run weren't popular internally.

—
Greg Street (@Ghostcrawler) January 04, 2013

@Yasko89 It sounds like the patch notes (Cloak and Dagger) are more up to date that the PTR (Hit and Run). That happens.

—
Greg Street (@Ghostcrawler) January 06, 2013

 

It’s really been something to see the explosion of discussion around H&R since it hit the PTR — and the huge variety of opinions regarding its value. I haven’t played the PTR at all, but the videos I’ve seen of H&R in action make it look pretty fun, and I can think of a few raid situations (such as the Feng fight) in which it could be handier than Step or BoS. In fact, Ghostcrawler commented about how many unexpectedly pro-H&R vibes there were toward the ability during the brief time it was available for testing:

 

@SvelteKumquat Honestly, yes. The targeting reticule was a deal-breaker for many of our internal folks.

—
Greg Street (@Ghostcrawler) January 11, 2013

@Seerows_Law Heroic Leap played into the decision. We like the ability (and so do many warriors) but for some the reticule is a hard sell.

—
Greg Street (@Ghostcrawler) January 11, 2013

 

Ah well. Now all our conjecture about the ability is even more pointless than it was before. Long live Cloak and Dagger’s stealth openers from range! Starting at some point in the next PTR build or three, at least.

Read Full Post »

On Twitter: Y’all Would Miss Prep, Ghostcrawler Suggests

The decision to make Preparation baseline in patch 5.2, as revealed in the patch preview notes before the holidays, has resurrected a side question: Why not just get rid of Prep entirely?

 

@GideonHawkins We've discussed that a lot. Our concern is you'd see rogues years from now still asking / demanding Prep back.

—
Greg Street (@Ghostcrawler) December 31, 2012

 

Ghostcrawler’s response feels odd to me, since player concerns/demands have rarely been the sole driving force behind Blizzard’s class design decisions — they make the choices they feel will be good for the game as a whole, and if those sync up with widespread player demands, then it’s a win-win. I’d have expected his answer to focus more on how integral and critical a spell Prep can be when used well.

In my four-plus years playing WoW, I don’t think I’ve *ever* used Prep (leveled mostly as Mut; been mostly Mut/Combat since; once new talent tiers were launched, have used BoS or Step), so I’m not in much of a position to talk about its practical applications. But on an illogical, almost sentimental level, Prep feels to me like one of those abilities that makes the game more interesting for players — particularly in PvP, and especially particularly in arena — who know how to use it strategically. Meanwhile, to everyone else, it’s one of those abilities that feels like useless flotsam, yet another cooldown they feel forced to juggle but with no clear, game-changing benefit.

It may be that baselining Prep is the first step (ha) toward ultimately removing it entirely and rebalancing our cooldowns around its loss. But would we miss it if it were gone? I suspect the majority of us wouldn’t, but those that do would *really really* miss it sorely, and feel like we’d have lost yet another tool that helps separate skilled rogues from not-so-skilled rogues.

Read Full Post »

On Twitter: Why “Hit and Run” Didn’t Quite Make It to the Patch 5.2 PTR

(NOTE ADDED 1/2/13: Despite the post below, when the Patch 5.2 PTR was made available on 1/2, Hit and Run was indeed occupying the level-60 talent tier spot left behind by Preparation, not Cloak and Dagger. Awaiting word from Blizz on what’s up.)

With Preparation slated to become a baseline talent for all rogues in the upcoming patch, something needed to replace its former position in our level-60 talent tier. The new toy that will make it onto the PTR is Cloak and Dagger, which allows you to use Ambush, Cheap Shot and Garrote from up to 30 yards away — and will teleport you just behind your target, Shadowstep-style (but not precisely the same as Shadowstep, which remains another option in that talent tier), in the process.

But there was apparently some pretty healthy debate among the class design team about what that slot would be filled by — so much so that another proposed talent, Hit and Run, was programmed and tested internally. And was picked up by MMO-Champion and Wowhead in their first datamine of the PTR, leading to a big ol’ hunk of confusion when the official patch preview notes were released and there was no Hit and Run to be found.

According to the datamine, Hit and Run was supposed to allow a rogue to designate a spot on the ground and then be teleported to it for 10 seconds, after which they’d return to their original spot. Sounds kinda cool (how many rogue players have asked for a targetable Shadowstep over the years?), but as Ghostcrawler said in a recent tweet:

@JohnAbes The early playtesting was not kind to that talent. The dread word "clunky" was used.

—
Greg Street (@Ghostcrawler) December 22, 2012

It’s a cool little insight into the kinds of discussions the class design folks have, as well as the sheer number of possible changes they chew on, debate, and even internally test without us ever knowing about them. Makes me wish they shared more of these stories with us; I’m a total nerd, I know, but I find “how we came to X decision” stories fascinating in WoW, and I think if we got a glimpse of more of them, there’d be a lot less complaining that Blizzard doesn’t put enough thought into its design decisions or that they are “ignoring” the userbase. Or, at least, it’d be easier for people like me to show them they’re wrong. :)

To those who celebrate, have a warm and wonderful Christmas Day!

(Thanks to Timat for giving me a heads-up on this tweet; my Spidey sense that tingles whenever GC tweets about rogues must’ve been overloaded by patch notes at the time. Yeah, that’s it.)

Read Full Post »