R-Cubed Site Update: You Can Haz All the Warcraft Rogue Tweets

Yep, it’s a blog post about a post on this blog. That feeling you just had? It’s your BRAIN BECOMING ESPLODED.

Since I started this little roguey home on the Web half a year ago, WoW designers’ and community managers’ use of Twitter to communicate with players has shot up into the stratosphere. For people like me, who use Twitter for Warcrafty chatting way more often than is healthy, I have never felt more directly engaged and tuned-in to what the brains behind the game are thinking about and working on. It’s pretty freaking cool.

The blessing, for all of you who read this blog and other rogueish fansites, is that we have more to tell you than ever about what designers and CMs have been saying about the class. The curse, for those of us who manage to somehow fool you into thinking our words are worth reading, is that there’s more info than ever to try to keep track of and summarize.

For a while, I was creating a new bloggy post on here every time a new Twitter conversation took place that was relevant to our class. Earlier in the spring, though, shit just got too real: When folks like Ghostcrawler and Brian Holinka are flinging dozens of tweets per day into the ether, it’s a serious challenge finding the time to do anything more than scan them with my eyeballs and quickly save links to the roguely ones.

Enter the Roguetwitpendium. Formerly the Home for Wayward Rogue Tweets (a place where I dumped tweets that I hoped to write up in a future blog post), it’s now a mostly-in-date-order, mostly-sort-of-kind-of-grouped-by-topic listing of every single rogue-related tweetversation I’ve seen that involved a WoW designer or community manager. It’s meant to be a single page that I — or you, I guess, if you’re into that kind of thing — can turn to browse through a full timeline of rogue-related Twitter conversations with the folks behind the game. Which is hopefully kind of handy.

I’ll still write up individual blog posts for tweets and other developments I think are worth me using my own words to bore you about. But for those of you who want an easy way to stay up to date on the entire Blizzard rogue Twitterverse (read: masochists), now you’ve got it.

At the moment, I only have May’s tweets all set up the way I want; March/April will follow shortly, and after that I’ll push further back in time as my future time allows (and assume I don’t breach the space-time continuum in the process). But I’ll do my best to update the page at least once a day with new rogueBlizztweets as they flit through the ether.

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Patch 5.3 Note Update: Tricks No Longer Buffs Some Death Knight Diseases

We got a hint last week, from a series of Brian Holinka and Ghostcrawler tweets, that our Tricks of the Trade spell was likely to get a poke to reduce its synergy with some death knight diseases — particularly the so-called “festerblight” rotation, which gives Unholy DKs some pretty amazing damage potential in a way that wasn’t entirely intended. (Think what would happen if we found a way to extend Shadow Blades indefinitely. Kinda like that.)

Last week, a patch note update included some direct nerfs to festerblight that surprised and frustrated many Unholy players who felt the change was coming out of left field. The devs took a closer look and decided that it wasn’t festerblight itself that was causing the biggest issue — it was how festerblight was being enhanced by the 15% damage boost granted by a friendly nearby rogue casting Tricks of the Trade at the proper moment(s).

Which led to those DK nerfs from last week being reverted in today’s official patch note update, and replaced with this:

• Blood Plague no longer benefits from the damage increase granted by Tricks of the Trade.
• Frost Fever no longer benefits from the damage increase granted by Tricks of the Trade.

This concludes the part of the post where I continue to have any clue what I’m talking about. (Actually, that part may have concluded about halfway through the first sentence.) But because I want to find some closure to the post, I’m going to try to stretch this into some kind of meaningful statement about how this provides a nice reminder that rogue changes aren’t always about balancing rogues in particular; they’re about trying to keep rogue abilities and rogue strengths/weaknesses in balance with the other classes in the game, and trying to ensure that no single grouping of classes becomes clearly superior to others in situations like progression raiding or 3v3 arena (where, for instance, rogue/hunter/priest has proven extremely strong in 5.2, and is seeing hits across that team as a result).

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On Twitter: How Rogues Made Death Knights OP

Ask not what your rogue can do for you; ask what it can do for your entire raid team.

Here’s an exchange that PvP cap’n Brian Holinka had with players on Twitter earlier today around some planned DPS nerfs to Death Knights. I’ve got no deep/useful analysis to provide here, except maybe to note the glimpse this gives us into just how complex class-change decisions can be, no matter how small they seem. It’s also an important reminder of how, sometimes, a change that we may think is a slam-dunk ends up having entirely unexpected consequences in PvE and PvP situations.

@holinka Reason behind Unholy Might nerf? Dks only receive nerfs in 5.3 (NS, Unholy Might, Sudden Doom), probably back to 5.1 state now—
Another (@skanot) May 08, 2013

@skanot We're looking at it still. We think it has more to do with Tricks of the Trade than diseases.—
Holinka (@holinka) May 08, 2013

@Aulper7 @skanot Rogues can give you 15% more damage with tricks of the trade. It allows DK's in PvE to get a lot of high spread damage.—
Holinka (@holinka) May 08, 2013

 

[UPDATE 5/9:] Ghostcrawler added these responses a bit later on.

@Fromnowear The PI problem was it was a talent, so it felt too mandatory because you could use it on someone else.—
Greg Street (@Ghostcrawler) May 09, 2013

@VerainOfUrsin @holinka ToT is fine overall. We just didn't want it to push all DKs into Festerblight rotation.—
Greg Street (@Ghostcrawler) May 09, 2013

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On Twitter: Patch 5.3 Rogue PvP Changes Are Likely Done, Holinka Suggests

And with this, PvP rogues may finally have a chance to exhale. Or to take a breath between howls over the planned class nerfs.

@fate47 happy with rogue/hunter changes. Still talking about affliction, holy pally and mage.

—
Holinka (@holinka) May 07, 2013

Obviously, this shouldn’t be taken to mean that the door is finally closed on the rogue adjustments for Patch 5.3; the developers may well change their minds, and there’s always a chance that they decided on additional changes last week and we just haven’t seen them yet. But this strongly suggests that the end of rogue PvP nerfs is in sight.

It also strongly suggests, of course, that any PvP buffs folks may have been hoping for to offset the nerfs probably won’t be happening for Patch 5.3 either.

Which isn’t necessarily a bad thing: The reactions I’ve seen in forums from rogue PvP players run the gamut from “these are minor and expected changes that won’t gut me” to “this is so catastrophic for rogues that I’m cancelling my subscription and burning my house down,” and everything in between. That wide range of opinions leads me to suspect that, in competitive arena, we may well see rogues dip a bit in terms of their presence within top rankings. But we’re probably not looking at anything resembling the barren pre-Patch 5.2 landscape, particularly not given the adjustments being made to other classes — or the adjustments that may yet be made to other classes, as Holinka suggests in the tweet above.

It’ll be interesting to see the effect that all of these changes — to rogues, to other classes (especially hunters) and to PvP Power — have on popular arena comps. It can be hard to predict which classes/specs really synergize well with one another until arena players have really had a chance to dive in and check out all the changes, which tends not to happen until the patch actually goes live. (The devs have noted previously that players tend to spend very little time on the PTR testing PvP changes in arena, so the changes they make to their initial patch plans are based more on theory and feedback than on actual play data.)

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On Twitter: PvP Chief Compares Shadowstep to Other Classes’ Baseline Mobility

BlizzBlues typically avoid, in plaguelike fashion, any direct class-vs.-class comparison of a single tool in the toolkit. They’re fond of saying — and rightly so — that classes aren’t created to be hard counters with one another, and that if they all had the same tools, they’d all basically be the same class (which might be very nicely balanced, but would also be the most boring thing in the history of ever).

That made it a little surprising that WoW PvP honcho Brian Holinka engaged in some back-and-forth last night over Shadowstep, and how the ability — which is currently a level-60 talent option — stacks up against the baseline mobility-aiding spells that other classes get. It’s a bit of an odd comparison, and as you’ll see Holinka doesn’t just talk about the ability in a bubble (since its synergy with other abilities, such as Cloak of Shadows, can add to its strength). But it’s one of those cool little glimpses into the way the mind of a senior PvP designer works and how he regards the strengths and weaknesses of rogues compared to other classes.

@objectirl Low cooldown and instantly on target. Comparing to Ret, Enhance, Death Knight and even Warrior it's very good. Monk may be better

—
Holinka (@holinka) May 06, 2013

@objectirl not to mention automatically applied snare and shiv'd 70% snare.

—
Holinka (@holinka) May 06, 2013

@Bludzeu @objectirl DK mobility = grip?

—
Holinka (@holinka) May 06, 2013

@Bludzeu @objectirl cloak and ams are a wash, chilblains is a talent (unlike crippling), potentially many cc breaks but not mobility

—
Holinka (@holinka) May 06, 2013

@Bludzeu @objectirl but I agree warrior is a stretch

—
Holinka (@holinka) May 06, 2013

@Bludzeu @objectirl to be fair I forgot ferals which are also very mobile

—
Holinka (@holinka) May 06, 2013

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On Twitter/Patch 5.3 PTR: Cloak and Dagger Nerf Clarified (It’s All About the Stealthjamins)

Amidst the hue and cry over our latest rogue PvP nerf revelation (in Patch 5.3, Cloak and Dagger likely won’t work when Subtlety rogues try to use it during Shadow Dance), WoW PvP honcho Brian Holinka dropped this little nugget:

@JRoosy CnD's range is back to 30 yards, but no longer usable unless stealthed—
Holinka (@holinka) May 03, 2013

Holinka and Ghostcrawler have been tweeting like CRAZY over the rogue changes since word of this CnD adjustment got out; read my previous post for a (mostly) complete listing.

Between Twitter, datamining and official patch note updates, the Patch 5.3 rogue change revelations have been pretty rapid-fire lately, so just to recap where we think we’re at right now:

• Cloak and Dagger will still be usable at 30 yards; the nerf to 20 yards will be reverted. However, rogues will only be able to use CnD while stealthed — this is why it can’t be used during Shadow Dance, because you’re technically not stealthed when ShD is active. (I’m assuming we will also be able to use CnD during Vanish or, for those of us who play a night elf, while Shadowmelded, but I haven’t seen any solid info on this yet.)
• All the Shuriken Toss changes are still happening. (Energy cost doubles, damage doubles, damage bonus at range removed.)
• The crowd control glyph nerfs (to Cheap Shot’s stun and Garrote’s silence) are probably still happening. (Aeriwen notes in the class forum that the Glyph of Cheap Shot tooltip hasn’t been updated with the nerf, but it’s still in the official patch notes.)
• The Find Weakness PvP nerf/PvE buff is still happening.
• We still haven’t heard a thing from anyone official about the datamined Revealing Strike buff.
• The Recuperate PvP buff is still happening (though that’s not a rogue-only change; it’s part of the broader PvP Power adjustments the devs are implementing for 5.3).

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On Twitter: New Subtlety PvP Nerf; Devs Respond to Flood of Patch 5.3 Rogue Tears — Updated 5/8

[UPDATE 5/4-5/8: Since I first posted this, Holinka clarified the new CnD change and noted that the previous range nerf is being reverted. I've also added a whole mess of additional, related tweets from Holinka and Ghostcrawler at the end of the post.]

Since the most recent Patch 5.3 PTR build yesterday, a number of Subtlety rogue players on the PTR have reported that Cloak and Dagger no longer works while they’re in Shadow Dance. The synergy between these two abilities has been one of the bread-and-butter rogue combos during Patch 5.2, and has helped propel rogues — specifically Subtlety rogues — to the top of the arena heap.

When added to the other changes already in store for Patch 5.3, what we’re seeing is a very clear attempt to 1) tone down rogue burst and CC abilities in general, and 2) try to make Assassination and Combat feel like they’re worth trying in PvP as well (mainly by making Sub less attractive).

PvP chief Brian Holinka and Ghostcrawler let forth a flurry of tweets (many featuring his refreshingly unapologetic tongue-in-cheek humor) in response to the frustration many rogues have expressed with this steady flow of rogue PvP nerfs for Patch 5.3. I shall unleash them on you below the cut; I’m too lazy to set up anchored links so you’ll have to scroll through them, but they’re split roughly into these minicategories:

• Tweets Clearing Up the CnD Change
• Offsetting the 5.1 Changes
• What About Subterfuge?
• Has Rogue PvP Been Ruined for 5.3?
• Re-Examining the Mobility Talent Tier (Part I)
• Re-Examining the Mobility Talent Tier (Part II)
• Ignorance About Being Ignored
• What About Patch 5.4?

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On Twitter: Find Weakness Nerfed vs. Players, Buffed vs. Evil Things

For those keeping score, this’ll be the fifth PvP-related rogue nerf (vs. one PvP rogue buff so far) — and first PvE rogue buff — slated to take effect with Patch 5.3:

Going to get out in front of this one. Find Weakness is now 50% against players (100% for mobs)—
Holinka (@holinka) May 02, 2013

@Aulper7 The former, 50%—
Holinka (@holinka) May 02, 2013

@FlawlessLogic1 @Knight_Lite There will be a 50% cap on Find Weakness in PvP, whether it's tooltipped or not.—
Greg Street (@Ghostcrawler) May 02, 2013

 

(This change was datamined in a PTR build shortly after these tweets.)

At the moment, the Subtlety-only Find Weakness ability reduces the armor of both player and non-player targets by 70% for 10 seconds. When the patch hits, these guys are announcing that the reduction will be nerfed to 50% against players (making it roughly 29% worse than it is now) and buffed to 100% against mobs (making it roughly 43% better than it is now).

For PvP, the idea here seems be a further reduction of Subtlety’s burst potential during Shadow Dance. I wonder: When combined with the other nerfs on the table for 5.3 (particularly to Cloak and Dagger), will this be enough to make rogues try out Assassination or Combat, as Holinka suggested a few weeks ago – without causing the rogue class as a whole to be shunned in Patch 5.3 as much as it had been prior to Patch 5.2?

For PvE, the idea here seems be an attempt to buff Subtlety DPS in hopes of providing some level of extra reward for successfully using arguably our most fragile raiding spec. I wonder: Is this enough to increase Sub’s DPS potential to the point where some high-end raiding rogues will feel it’s worthwhile to give it a shot?

Yep. I wonder. And while I wonder, here are a few more tweets from Brian Holinka on this change; gonna put them below the cut because they’re “extra” info/context.

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On Twitter: “Cooler” Rogue Attack Animations Are (Eventually) on the Way

This new tweet from Ghostcrawler offers an ever-so-slightly more optimistic outlook on flashier rogue abilities than the last time GC commented on this issue a few months ago.

What he said back then:

@Aulper7 Great question and we don't have an answer to share yet. We are looking at more exciting visuals.—
Greg Street (@Ghostcrawler) January 21, 2013

And what he said earlier tonight:

@DMJops We are working long term on making rogue and warrior attacks cooler, since we agree that they look the most bland while fighting.

—
Greg Street (@Ghostcrawler) May 02, 2013

GC’s new tweet was the outgrowth of a long back-and-forth discussion that has unfolded with players over the idea of offering us the ability to have more than two specs. (The existence of a tri-spec achievement was datamined early in Patch 5.3, but any speculation that it was actually going to happen was quickly quashed.)

In his latest discussion about tri-spec, GC chose to use rogues as the example class for making the case that having more “slots” for specs may hurt the feeling of individuality that some rogue players have. That led one player, @DMJops, on this logical journey (to which GC responded with the tweet at the top of this post):

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On Twitter: Your Subterfuge Cries Have Been Heard

…And lord, has there been cryin’.

In the past two weeks alone, a total of 43 tweets (by my count) mentioning Subterfuge have been directed at senior developers Ghostcrawler and Brian Holinka. A forum thread on the issue that started 8 hours ago already has three pages’ worth of responses.

Almost all of the comments about the ability have fallen into one of two categories:

1. Rogue players who are pissed that Subterfuge doesn’t work well enough
2. Non-rogue players who are pissed that Subterfuge works too well

This is how you know an ability is successful: It makes EVERYBODY miserable.

In a nutshell, the rogue-player complaints revolve around Subterfuge’s unreliability; despite some fixes a few months back, its three-second destealth countdown still appears to occasionally begin even though the rogue hasn’t done anything that should logically trigger it. The non-rogue player complaints revolve around feeling it’s unfair that, within that three-second window, a rogue can repeatedly use abilities like Kidney Shot (for crowd control) or Ambush (for burst damage) largely at will.

To which PvP chief Brian Holinka responds: We hear you, but for the time being at least, you’re just gonna have to deal with it.

@ChritznL Is it really the problem? Didn't read a lot of 5.0 complaints. Is there more to this?—
Holinka (@holinka) March 30, 2013

Holinka Official Feedback Acknowledgement #1: I have read your tweet about subterfuge—
Holinka (@holinka) April 17, 2013

@ThornassEU It's a reply to everyone that tweets me about how subterfuge is OP and how subterfuge is bugged—
Holinka (@holinka) April 17, 2013

@ChritznL We have no plans for subterfuge—
Holinka (@holinka) April 24, 2013

@EwynOutland I understand the call for a subterfuge nerf but focusing on what changed between 5.1 and 5.2—
Holinka (@holinka) April 27, 2013

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